Martin W. Ball, Ph.D. – 5-MeO-DMT vs Other Psychedelics and Plant Medicines, Removing Bullshit, Unleashing Your True Self, Embracing Authenticity, Embodiment And More (#6)

John Wood, Founder of Rageheart

by John Wood

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Martin W Ball, PHD, The Entheogenic Evolution Podcast

How can we break free of the limitations of ego and truly be ourselves in every single moment of our lives?

Join me today as I chat with Martin Ball, former 5-MeO-DMT facilitator, the inventor of the phrase “The God Molecule” to describe 5-MeO-DMT and host of The Entheogenic Evolution Podcast, about how to tap into our authentic selves and transcend the limiting stories we think we have to live by.

Our conversation takes us on a journey through Martin’s experiences with 5-MeO-DMT, magic mushrooms, his embodiment practice as well as the various creative projects he’s involved in (books, music, art and more).

We delve into the importance of carving out time for creative pursuits (such as music) and explore radical non-dualism, the role of the ego and how to access our embodied and animalistic nature to get out of the thought-filled mind and into no-holds-barred presence.

Interestingly, what Martin talks about is almost identical to what I teach in The Daily Growl and The Rageheart Academy (which is why I wanted to get him on The Rageheart Podcast). Stop thinking, start feeling and unleash the beast inside you.

At the end of the day, it’s all about remembering who and what you truly are… with OR without psychedelics and plant medicine.


Thanks for listening! Want to reduce anxiety, reverse depression and stop your racing mind dead in its tracks? Sign up for The Daily Growl (a free daily email newsletter).

In This Episode Of The Rageheart Podcast With Martin W. Ball, PHD, You’ll Discover:

  • How to be totally and completely yourself (not who you think you are, not your stories about who you are, not who other people think you are… but who and what you actually are)
  • Martin’s journey from Buddhism and meditation to an unhappy and unsatisfying marriage… all the way to 5-MeO-DMT and the clarity, presence and joy that come from knowing yourself
  • The little-known dangers of meditation (I’ve ranted about this before… but today, you get to hear Martin Ball’s take)
  • A new way to think about “the ego” and how to deal with it (a new perspective is a new map and a new map gives you a new, BETTER way to navigate the territory of your mind)
  • How to unravel the seemingly endless layers of the mind so you glide softly into deeper presence and embodiment (hint: you can’t do it, you have to _______)
  • Why the stories and memories from the past don’t matter (at least in terms of healing and finding freedom)


  • 0:03 Being Yourself
  • 10:07 Martin Ball
  • 15:55 Radical Non-Dualism and Psychedelic Work
  • 26:05 Authenticity and Ego Transformation
  • 32:28 From Buddhism to DMT
  • 38:23 Being Yourself and Finding Clarity
  • 42:45 Remembering Your Authentic Self
  • 53:47 The Power of 5meo-DMT and Self-Liberation
  • 1:05:50 Healing With Five MEO DMT
  • 1:13:46 Energy and Being Present
  • 1:22:42 Exploring the Ego and Symmetry
  • 1:34:31 Unlocking the Ability to Feel
  • 1:39:16 Feeling Through Rageheart

Links From The Episode:

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Rageheart Podcast, where we talk about how to get in touch with your emotions, connect to the universe with psychedelics and charge really, really, really shiny crystals in the light of the full moon.

Speaker 2: I’m just fucking with you.

Speaker 3: Let’s say there’s 500 people in the audience that say how many people here would like to feel that you could authentically be yourself in any given moment, and everybody would raise their hand. Everybody would say, yeah, i want that. And I’d say, ok, how many of you feel that you’re actually doing that? And maybe one to no hands would go up. I’d say so. That’s what we’re here to talk about.

Speaker 2: All right, you beast. Welcome to the Rageheart Podcast, where I talk to all kinds of interesting people, including therapists, ayahuasca shamans and maestros five MEODMT facilitators That’s today Occasionally my cats and also myself. Sometimes I talk to myself I don’t know about you, but I’m fond of talking to myself about whole things nervous system healing, psychedelics and plant medicine, how to unleash the beast inside you and, especially today, how to be yourself. Today I am talking to Martin Ball from the Entheogenic Evolution Podcast. He is a former five MEODMT facilitator. That’s a very powerful psychedelic. You can I actually haven’t done it myself so I don’t know too much about it but it’s extremely powerful, fairly short lived, and Martin Ball is a former facilitator for that and he’s written a bunch of books. He has a podcast as well, obviously, and a bunch of other things that I’m not going to go into right now because Martin goes into it.

Speaker 2: In the episode itself. We talk about things like ego, how to get past it, the mind, all the stories, all the things we think we have to be. So you can actually be yourself, not who you think you are or who you think you need to be or what you think you are, but who you actually are. Now, this is actually one of my favorite topics to talk about anywhere, out of everything, and really the core and the heart of rage. Art in many ways is this, this remembering who and what we are. The phrase that I like is remember who you are, which came from the Lion King, where I burst into tears halfway through. I don’t usually cry in movies, it’s not typical of me, but this happened. I cried for the probably the last third of the movie, until the end of the credits.

Speaker 2: I’ll tell the story in this episode so you’ll find out why. But this phrase there’s a lot of juice behind it And I know it might sound trite or basic or trivial. It’s like I get it, like I know who I am, what are you talking about? But you know, i would have said that too. And then, when I started peeling back these layers, it’s the most thrilling, beautiful, magical thing that I believe can happen to anyone. Certainly the most interesting and fascinating and, like I said, beautiful and magical thing that’s happened to me and continues to unfold This realization of what we are, the truth of it, when you let all ideas go. Okay, so that’s a big part of this episode.

Speaker 2: So, before I get too philosophical and too deep into this topic on my own. I’m going to move on because Martin and I, like I said, we’re going to talk about it quite a bit In this episode in the context of psychedelics and plant medicine and embodiment tools, like what I teach in Rage Heart. But before we get to that, just a quick updates. I wanted to share another insight from the recent Diether, the Plant Medicine Diether, the two week diet that I did where there was, you know, five days of fasting, four ayahuasca ceremonies and lots of time sitting on my own listening to the mind to do what it does make stories about all kinds of random shit. So the idea or the insight and this might be just a sort of a spin on last week, but what I’m noticing, you know, as I do this work with myself, as I watch other people, you know, as I do this with Rage Heart, as well as sometimes focusing on the problem right, whether it’s anxiety or depression or whatever specific set of symptoms we have, because we all have something most people do focusing too much on that, what I’m learning and what I’m seeing is it just creates more of the same, and the reason for this, i think, is that the way the nervous system works is, when we see a threat, it’s normal for the nervous system to then start to want to get rid of it, to run away from it or to attack it.

Speaker 2: That’s okay when it’s a tiger or you know something that you can actually get away from, hopefully. But when it’s inside you and it’s something that you’re orienting towards yourself as a threat, you can’t run away from it. You can’t really get rid of it, not easily, not straight away. It’s a process, and so by focusing on the anxiety, the fear, the doubt, the imposter syndrome, the depression, whatever it is, what I’m seeing is then the system can go oh, that’s a threat. Which then increases the sympathetic activation in the system, the sense that something’s wrong, which then increases the motivation to find and look for threats. It’s like, oh, now I see the anxiety, but this time it seems like it’s even an even bigger threat Because you’ve already more activated. And so we end up with this negative loop.

Speaker 2: If we see a threat in ourself, the symptom that we don’t like about ourself, and then the nervous system activates and gets more stressed. Because it’s more stressed, it’s then more prone to looking for threats. Then it sees the anxiety or the symptom again, but now it’s worse. The threat response goes up, sympathetic activation increases and we just end up in this negative loop. We just get stuck in this cycle of shit. In this cycle of shit.

Speaker 2: Basically, the solution what I’m seeing is to and this is a big part of what I teach people inside RayChat is, instead of being sympathetic in this fight or flight mode, we’ve got to learn how to come out of that and actually start to focus on the space, the relaxation, the parts of ourselves that are not maybe in pain, maybe they don’t feel good, but they might feel less bad than the really bad part. And by starting to tune into some of the things that are okay physically, mentally, emotionally the system can then start to relax out of this sympathetic state, start to come more into a parasympathetic rest and digest, and that’s where all the healing happens. So if there is anxiety, there is depression, there is physical symptoms that we really want to get rid of, focusing on it’s not the answer. The answer is to start to cultivate a more parasympathetic mode in the nervous system, and then the body and the nervous system will take care of itself. As for how to do this, this is.

Speaker 2: I mean, you’re going to learn this listening to this podcast. You can get on to the Daily Growl. That’s my daily email that I send out at rageheart.co, and this is, of course, the RayChat Academy as well but you don’t have to pay for anything if you don’t want to. You can get a lot of what I’m talking about by listening to this podcast today, by listening to the other podcasts, getting the free emails, and part of it’s just an attitude thing knowing where to look and where not to look. So one last thing if you enjoy this podcast and believe in what I’m talking about on here and what the guests are talking about, i certainly do.

Speaker 2: I love this stuff. I’m doing this because I totally believe in this more than just about anything, and I’m doing everything I can to get the word out about this, because most people have no idea about these ideas yet, these tools for this ways of working with the nervous system. So if you want to help me get the word out, if you believe in this stuff, too, and you want to be part of it, i’d love it if you could share this podcast, this episode, one of the other episodes, whatever it is, with your friends Facebook, twitter, instagram, whatever you want to use. Tinder and Bumble is fine too. I don’t know how that’s going to go down, though, and, if you can, i’d love a review. It really helps any review on Apple podcasts or a rating on Spotify. Or, if that’s too hard, just grab a billboard on Times Square. I won’t mind it all. It all makes a difference, even that billboard. So I’ve got one this week from Sonam. He’s a member, he’s on the Daily Growl, the email newsletter at rageartco is part of the Rageheart Academy, getting the training, and he’s what he says.

Speaker 2: I feel much more present and aware. by aware, i mean more intimately connected to my body. I’m more sensitive to feelings and physically embodied emotions, and I am less overwhelmed because of it. Life is still busy, still stressful, still very tension inducing, but I find myself recognizing when I’m tense more often, which gives me more agency to tend to my body’s needs, and I wanted to read that one out, because there’s so much good shit in there, right. As we become more aware, we become less overwhelmed, we’re feeling more, and that can be challenging, but we also become better equipped to actually take care of our body and mind and what we actually need rather than what we think we need. Like I said, it’s a feeling You got to feel it. Anyway, that’s enough of that.

Speaker 2: Let’s get into the interview with Martin Ball. All right, it’s John Wood here, the founder of Rageheart with the Unleashed the Beast podcast. I’m here with Martin Ball, the host, or the founder, or the guy who runs Entheogenic Evolution. That’s the podcast And I went on his show a week ago. We recorded an interview a week ago.

Speaker 2: He was referred by a lady named Kat, who’s also been on the Unleashed the Beast podcast, and I thought it’d be fun to get him on just to talk about his story, because he has a lot of experience with psychedelics and plant medicine, as well as, as far as I understand it, meditation and some of non-duality and how these tools can start to play together And something called. I watched a video with him talking about five MEO DMT mushrooms which we can get into that and he’s doing some kind of symmetrical something. I don’t really understand what it is or what it’s about, but I want to find out more about that today as well, Because I think it’s going to go. All this stuff about embodiment, learning to feel, learning to be here. It sounds like he’s doing very much the same thing, but perhaps in a slightly different way. I’m pretty pumped, martin, how you doing man.

Speaker 3: I’m doing well Good to be here today, John.

Speaker 2: Good to have you, man. It’s funny because, like just to see you like sitting right here, because I just watched, like two hours ago, this CELUMATOX in Mushroom Experiment, so the five MEO DMT mushrooms and you were literally sitting in exactly the same place doing wasn’t really yoga, but doing your movement stuff behind you. So part of me is like did you take mushrooms today? Because that’d make for a pretty cool podcast.

Speaker 3: Yeah, well, it’s kind of funny that I get similar comments a lot because, yeah, this is my home, this is my office, this is where I do, what I do is right here And this is where I’ve been living for the past year and a half. So any video with me is going to be from exactly this location. And I also do a lot of video consultation calls with clients and they often say, yeah, I was watching your video and you’re sitting in the same place and, and some, you know, it kind of all bleeds together between the videos of me and then actually talking to me. So I get it. You know, i’m kind of just a one location person.

Speaker 2: And you get some musical instruments. I see you get a guitar, a couple guitars right, you got the drum. a whole bunch of stuff going on there, yeah yeah, yeah, i’ve got my instruments behind me.

Speaker 3: I’m not working on any music currently, but I like to leave my instruments out. You know, early on when I was developing as a musician, i used to play like all the time, like every day, especially playing guitar. I’d play guitar like at least an hour every day. Most days now my instruments just sit around till I carve out time to work on a new album or something And then I break out all my instruments and actually over this last year, you know, i’ve got this 12 string guitar back here and I hadn’t really played my 12 string in a couple years And I like to keep my guitars in different tuning. So I have my six string guitar and I keep that in a tuning that I kind of invented when I was like 19 years old, so it’s just my own personal tuning. And then the 12 string guitar. I play that in Dad Gad mostly dad And I hadn’t played it for a couple years Yeah yeah, so rather than that again what is it?

Speaker 3: E, e, b, g, d A.

Speaker 3: E Yeah, so it’s it’s D, a, d, g, a, d, dad Gad, and it’s been a few years since I played it. And so back in the spring of last year I kind of picked up the 12 string, changed the strings on it which it really needed, and then kind of had to relearn playing in dad, dad and then recorded, created and recorded a bunch of songs in that tuning. But since doing that album it’s called, just called, 12 strings. I have not played it. So yeah, they sit there and then I think about them and then every once in a while you know, i tried to.

Speaker 3: I’m kind of a project person, i like to. If I’m working on a book, i’m working on a book. If I’m working on art, i’m working on art, and then if I’m working on an album, I’m working on an album, and so that’s kind of how I block out my time and stay productive. So right now they’re just sitting there, but I just just yesterday I started working on my 12th audio book And as soon as I’m done recording all of the reading of the audio book, then I will go and create a new album of music that will serve as the soundtrack for the audio book. So that that’s kind of where I am in the the project phase for 2023 at the moment.

Speaker 2: Oh, fantastic, fantastic, I’ve still got I think I mentioned this last time I’ve got. You know, i’ve got. I’ve only got an acoustic guitar here with me, but I was playing guitar as a kid teenager as well. I still I got to put it up on the wall. I just haven’t done it yet, but somewhere where it’s like, oh, i can just pick it up, start playing. It was right now. It’s down in my probably my bedroom at the moment. I mean, i’ll pick it up every now and then, but I just I’m not really. You know, i don’t have any schedule. I’m not making anything specifically, it’s just if I think about it at the time I’ll pick it up, otherwise it doesn’t get played.

Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, mine just sit there till I’m working on an album.

Speaker 2: Uh-huh, uh-huh, fantastic. So, as a musician, you have a PhD, you’ve written some books, you’ve got an audio book in the works. Now that you do art, what do you if I was to say who is Martin Ball and what does he do? Or how would you, how would you introduce yourself to, to a new person or a new audience who’s come to find out how to unleash the beast?

Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, well, um, i’ll, i’ll give you kind of the cheeky answer. So the cheeky answer is uh, i am a localized embodiment of the universal being and consciousness that is, uh, associated with the personality known as Martin Ball. That is also associated with this particular physical form which you see here before you, and that particular character of Martin Ball is a 50 year old male, lives in Ashland, oregon, and, um, yeah, i’m kind of a sort of a self described psychedelic renaissance man in in again, kind of a cheeky way, in the sense that, um, you know, i’m both I’m an author, i’m a musician, i’m an artist, i am an integration coach, i’m a non dual teacher and guide, um, i’m a podcast host, i’m an event organizer. Uh, formerly, i was a five MEO DMT facilitator for seven years as well. Uh, before that, i was a facilitator of Salvia Divinorum, um, so I do a bunch of different things, um, but, uh, my basic identity is that I am a self described radical, non dualist, uh, meaning that I look at everything as a manifestation of one universal being and consciousness and we are all direct expressions of that, and I’m very clear on the fact. So that’s why I kind of give that cheeky, uh description of myself. But basically, just to put it more simply, um, i’m I’m an independent person. I’m not associated with any groups or medical boards or universities.

Speaker 3: Um, in the psychedelic movement that I’m pretty much a self produced in all of the areas that I’ve described above, and I’ve kind of been, you know, forging my own pathway through all of this and have been sort of public in the psychedelic sphere since 2006. That was, um, that was the year that this book of mine, mushroom wisdom, got published. Um, some people think it’s my first book. It’s actually my fifth book that I wrote four novels before that And then I wrote this book, mushroom wisdom. That came out in 2006. And then in 2007, i wrote a book about Salvia Divinorum called Sage Spirit. And then in 2008 and 2009, i underwent a radical, radical process of self transformation, awakening and energetic recalibration, primarily through the vehicle of five MEO DMT and also with ayahuasca mushrooms, salvia Divinorum, but the main driver of that was definitely the five MEO DMT. So since about 2008, i’ve kind of best been known for my work around five MEO DMT. Um, i was the person who nicknamed it the God molecule, which is now kind of widely referred to around the world as this molecules, the God molecule And I’m the one who came up with that based on my own experiences, and I’ve written a number of books about it. Um, probably the most popular and significant is my 2017 book. This one here I call it the blue book is in theogenic liberation unraveling the enigma of non duality with five MEO DMT Energetic therapy And I think it’s safe to say it’s wider regarded as the most comprehensive book that’s been written about five MEO DMT, and it’s all through my own particular lens that I put on it that.

Speaker 3: Um, yeah, you mentioned I have my PhD. That’s in religious studies. I earned that from the University of California, santa Barbara. Um, in comparative mysticism, a ritual in the body um, native American, uh, religious traditions Uh, so I have an academic background in the study of religion. I also am self described as not religious and not spiritual. I’m not interested in fluffy, woo, woo bullshit. It uh really rubs me the wrong way. I’m interested in clarity, i’m interested in presence, i’m interested in authenticity and I do not like fluff, i do not like mystification, I do not like, uh over reliance on ritual and prayer and the rest of that stuff, because, as a radical non dualist, you know my, my rejoinder to all of that is who are you praying to? Who are you worshiping? Um, where are you trying to get to? Because you already are that and whatever it is that you’re praying to, that’s you.

Speaker 3: So, yeah, i’m kind of I’m compromising in that regard And yeah, I’ve written a number of books about it and I started my podcast, the entheogenic evolution, back in 2008 and uh I I could be wrong, but I do think that at this point I might be the longest running consistent uh podcast about psychedelics and entheogens on the planet, cause I don’t know anybody else who’s been doing it for 15 years consistently and is still going So.

Speaker 2: Ah, fascinating. So there’s so many different directions we could go with this, but I think for people coming in.

Speaker 2: So maybe you give me some context with this unleash the beast title. The whole idea behind it is not I’m trying to put words to something which, like the sense of embodiment, which I imagine you understand, the sense of like a landing, of being in the body, not in the mind, which to me has led to all kinds of different, you know, emotional, energetic releases, sometimes growling, all kinds of things that can be very animalistic and beastly in a way, And so there’s something very profound and healing and powerful when I think we as humans get in touch with that aspect of ourselves and get out of the head of this, you know, thinking mind that’s always going and start to feel it’s more animalistic. And so that’s the whole idea behind unleash the beast. It’s not necessarily about making money or succeeding in anything in particular, It’s just about being who we are, which is very similar to what you’re talking about with the non duality that you were already yourself. It’s just getting all that shit out of the way.

Speaker 2: So to me it makes sense. Imagine, to you it makes sense to. But to someone who’s hasn’t had five MEO or hasn’t had one of these breakthrough experiences with psychedelics, I imagine sometimes it’s like you know, I’ve had this trouble. To try to explain some of these things to people of what it’s actually like is can be very difficult because there’s no frame of reference. So you know, it’s nice to say, it’s all well and good and we’re all expressions of the universal consciousness, but how would you, how would you put that into words that someone who’s not maybe there yet, or hasn’t had that experience yet, that they might be able to understand Like one place to start, would be like what does that mean for your day to day reality in practical terms?

Speaker 3: Well, in practical terms, what it really comes down to is that, you know, people come up with all kinds of ideas like well, what is, what is my purpose? What is my mission? Who should I be? What am I supposed to do? And these are all questions of the ego, right Through our self-awareness. We know that we exist, we know that we’re here and we ask all these questions like is somebody in charge? What’s going on here? What are the rules? How do I play right? You know, and all of again, all of those are questions of the ego. And then the ego throws out answers to those and then says, okay, I’m going to conform to those or not conform to those answers. But my basic answer to it is look, your job is to be yourself, and the problem is that it’s not really possible for people to fully authentically be themselves if they do not know who and what they are. So this process of learning how to authentically be yourself is involved in the process of also discovering the authentic nature of the self. And I know that that can sound new, agey and wishy-washy and lots of people use those terms, but I have a very specific meaning behind that And that is that. You know, just put it into very simple language, as I like to tell people, like, for example, in my 2009 book Being Human, which is the first book that I wrote after going through this own transformation within myself. So at the very end of the book, i have these entheogenic affirmations and they’re supposed to be a little bit cheeky. And so the first one says guess what You are, god, now get over it. So that kind of encapsulates this idea of non-duality, that so that when I use the word God, what I’m referring to is that there is one universal consciousness and being, and that is the true nature of all identity. So if I strip away my martinness, if I strip away my humanness, if I strip away all of my social, political, family, cultural, ethnic identities, if I strip all of that away, we get down to what’s at the core of it. What people can discover about themselves is like oh shit, i’m it.

Speaker 3: Actually, i am this universal consciousness and universal being that is not attached to any one particular form, and because every person can experience that for him or herself, that means that we all have the same ultimate identity. We are all the universal consciousness and being that are performing as these different characters, through these different vehicles, which is a term that I like to use to refer to the body. So the body is the vehicle, the character is the personality, the persona, the ego that says hi, i’m Martin, hi, I’m John. Martin thinks these things, acts these ways. John acts these ways, has these thoughts, has these personal experiences.

Speaker 3: But when we go beyond that, you and I both can experience I am the universal consciousness, i am the universal being, and that universal being is not transcendent of reality. It actually is reality itself, so that this awareness, in a sense, is infused within everything that exists, that everything that we experience is just this one universal being that is interacting with itself through these different characters and these different guises of subject and object. Me and not me. So that’s why, you know, i have this little entheogenic affirmation guess what? you are God, now get over it. And that’s also the important part, because you know, when people go through these experiences, sometimes they’re like Oh yeah, i, i am God, i am the chosen one, i am the authority, i am the one that needs to be worshiped and bowed down to. And that’s why I say you know, now get over it. Because it’s true for everybody, everyone is that no one is special. In that sense we’re all very, very special, but also no one is special. Another one that I have here is you are God’s altered state. So when this universal consciousness forgets, oh yeah, i’m the universal consciousness, it thinks, oh, i’m Martin, like. So, when God is tripping really hard, god thinks it’s Martin. And then when Martin is tripping really hard, he realizes Oh, i’m the universal consciousness And another one, just God doesn’t take you seriously. So why should you? And that’s another thing with the ego, where we take everything so seriously, we take everything so personally, we invest so much meaning into all the events of our lives and all of our interpretations.

Speaker 3: You know, and there’s a little joke that I like to use with this, where, you know, i do a lot of bird photography. It’s one of my personal passions And I like to photograph lots of raptors, eagles, hawks, things like that. And you know and this is kind of endemic in the spiritual world, where people say, oh, i saw an eagle And it meant that I was on the right path, because it gave me a blessing, or something like that that you know, we impose all of this meaning onto everything that happens all the time, and every last little bit of that is invented by the ego. It’s not real. It’s just the imposition of meaning onto the experience of reality. So my joke is, you know, people ask me like, oh wow, you saw an eagle, what did that mean? And my answer is means I was at the right place at the right time. To photograph an eagle doesn’t mean anything more than that. And so kind of get into this idea of stop taking things so seriously, stop and post. And so I’m not posing so much meaning because basically, through the ego, we are addicted to the meaning making function of the ego, and the only thing that makes meaning is the ego.

Speaker 3: It’s the self awareness that is able to ask questions, propose answers and then attach themselves to those. So anyway, to get back to your question, this process of learning how to really authentically be yourself in your body which is also another place where I make a distinction that a lot of quote unquote meditation traditions propose a very disembodied and disconnected view of liberation that I’m going to float off into the ethers, i’m going to leave my body behind, i’m going to ascend through these different realms and then I’m going to live in this pure spiritual realm And I’m just going to sit in meditation the rest of my life And for me that is that’s just a total cop out, that’s just spiritual bypassing to the extreme degree. So for me the question is, how do I land that in my body, in my being? And that’s where I introduced this idea of this energetic reformatting that takes place. So sorry, this is kind of a long answer, but I’m getting to it.

Speaker 3: So the ego I like to identify is just patterns of energetic expression, embodiment and thought and belief with which we identify and through a self aware capacity, meaning that everything that happens with the ego is just a pattern, it’s a patterned form of expression. So, for example, right now, anybody who’s familiar with me or has listened to me, they could identify. Oh yeah, that’s Martin speaking, i can hear his voice, i know that that’s him, these are the words that he likes to use, this is the way that he likes to express himself. It’s all just patterned stuff and identify with that and say, oh yeah, that’s me, you know. But if I were to talk to you in a funny voice like that, you’d say, oh well, maybe that’s not Martin, maybe that he’s just trying to be a leprechaun or some crazy shit like that. And if I went around like that all the time, people would say, dude, like why are you being this bizarre leprechaun? And then I could say, oh, it’s performance art. But if I started to identify with that, then that could become my new identity.

Speaker 3: So what we get a lot of times is people swap one set of patterns for another as they shift and change their identity as they’re looking for that authentic self.

Speaker 3: But the only way to really get to the authentic self is to transcend beyond all of these limited energetic patterns of expression so that we can go into a state of infinite awareness and infinite energetic expansion to learn who and what we truly are. And then it’s a matter of how do I bring that back into my embodied existence in a way that actually helps free me from the habitual patterning of the ego and the limiting identification with it? And so by encountering ourselves at the deepest level. That’s where we have the greatest potential to actually transform who and what we are into a more authentically embodied mode of being. We’re not bound by the ego. So the ego at that point is no longer a prison. I like to liken it more to a set of clothing that we can take on and off as needed, according to whatever our energetic environment or interaction might be, and so it’s a long answer with a lot of different ideas, but that’s basically what you’re seeing in that Silo Mthoxen video. Right.

Speaker 2: Right, i’m going to play devil’s advocate, just because, like I think, i know what you’re talking about because, I’ve worked a lot with psychedelics and had some of these experiences. But even on people who’ve had, you know, worked with psychedelics have often a lot of them, haven’t. I don’t know like not everyone who seems to you know take psychedelics has these types of experiences. So, like part of me wants to, you know, ask on the behalf of those people what’s the point Like?

Speaker 2: why Like? because that’s when I would try to explain some of these experiences to other people I could see their. Their eyes would kind of glaze over, like they just they didn’t get it. It’s just like. It’s just like what Like? huh.

Speaker 2: Like it all sounds great. Like with the nice words universal consciousness and awareness and authenticity, and sounds great. It’s nice words. But I imagine there’s someone out there that’s like yeah, but so what? Like, so, like, I know there’s something there, but how? how would you describe like if someone saying that like, what’s the point of this? Like, why bother, Why don’t just live your life?

Speaker 3: Yeah, well, that’s honestly, it’s a very good question, and so I always think that it’s best to kind of work through specific examples rather than speaking in generalities when addressing a question like this. So here’s where I use myself as an example, because I have two very distinct parts of my life that I can identify, one where I was not being authentically myself, and then when I learned how to authentically be myself, and then what changed for me through that? So the ego of Martin Ball, the identity of this person. I grew up in a secular, non-religious, non-spiritual household, but even as a young child was very interested in the question of, well, what is the true nature of reality? And I was even at one point when I was a small child and I got down and just following the prompts that I saw on TV, when kids pray, they kneel down on their bed and they put their hands in front of them and they’re like, please, god, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever. So anyway, i tried doing that once and I got down on my bed and I put my hands in front of myself and I said, god, if you exist, i really want to know. But I just want you to know that I’m not just going to believe in you because I don’t buy it, and so I’m going to need some proof. So that was one of my defining characteristics as a person is that I was very interested in this question of what is real, what is the nature of reality, and that’s kind of what spurred me on to study philosophy and then go into religious studies and investigating altered states of consciousness and questions of the nature of reality.

Speaker 3: But anyway, you know, like everybody else, as growing up, small children start to develop their sense of self and they start to distinguish between what they think is themselves and what is not themselves. This is a primary function of the ego that it makes a distinction between me and not me, self and not self, subject and object. So that’s what we call duality, right existing in a realm of duality where there’s me and then there’s everything that is not me. And you know, like everybody else, you take on certain patterns and certain modes of expression that may or may not really be authentic for you. So one of the patterns that I took on and one of the identities that I formed for myself is that, coming from a secular household, when I first learned about Buddhism, i was very astounded because this was not talking about believing in Jesus or reading the Bible, or heaven or hell, but it was like sit down, shut up and pay attention. I liked that. I said, oh, okay, well, maybe I could be a Buddhist.

Speaker 3: So I was practicing as a Buddhist for a number of years and following meditation and also following compassion and you know all of those good things that Buddhism does, and I used Buddhism to kind of create the notion that, oh, i’m a nice guy, i’m a compassionate guy And I’m not going to make waves, i’m not going to make disturbances. And also my own parents have gone through a very ugly divorce when I was nine years old and they were screaming and yelling and fighting with each other, and so I had kind of developed this idea like, okay, well, i’m going to be a spiritual person and I’m not going to get into arguments, i’m not going to make waves, i’m not going to make a voice, i’m not going to do anything to make other people upset Now through those energetic patterns that I was developing within myself. What that meant was that I needed to actually shut myself down on various levels, because then later in life I ended up getting married and actually was very unhappy within that relationship, and so before I would try and discuss my own happiness with my wife at that time, she would have a big emotional reaction and really shut down. And so what I learned was suck it up, be nice and use your Buddhism to overcome your attachment to wanting to have a fulfilling sexual and romantic relationship, that I’m just attached to those desires, and so I’ve got to shut those down and I’ve just got to be a nice Buddhist and be a nice guy. And the result is I was fucking miserable. I was totally fucking miserable, and I was not authentically expressing myself, that. I was holding all of it inside. And it was all done through this idea of I’m being a good Buddhist, i’m being compassionate, by not expressing or embodying any of these energies that I’m actually feeling.

Speaker 3: And then, for me, the biggest change that came about was when prompted by events which I won’t get into it because there’s just way too many details of the story, but it was a burning man in 2007, and I’m tripping on mushrooms out in the middle of the playa, all by myself, just sitting there contemplating what I’m supposed to do, and this woman comes up and she just we have a brief conversation and she tells me look, listen to your heart and follow your heart And, even though it may be hard, ten years from now you’ll know that you made the right choice. So at that point, after I went home from Burning Man, i told my wife I was leaving. And that was just transformative for me, because at that point I stopped holding it in and I started allowing myself to really experience what is really in my heart. What do I really feel? And even though, yes, i am concerned about being compassionate and respectful and sensitive to other people’s needs, wants and desires but I was using all of that as an excuse to hold myself back and to not really authentically be myself.

Speaker 3: And it was shortly after that that I ended up moving up here to Ashland Oregon, moving out of Santa Barbara area in Southern California, and within a month I was invited to experience 5MEO DMT and at that event I was introduced to this molecule which, within seconds, i experienced myself as dying. So I inhaled this molecule and within seconds I was like, oh shit, i’ve really done it now. Like this is it. I’m dying. And not only am I dying, but I am merging with this infinite consciousness and not only that, i’m totally cool with it, like this is the best thing ever, and my ego the persona of Martin thought he was probably never going to come back from that. But I allowed it to take place and it was the most beautiful experience of my life.

Speaker 3: And so I had studied non-duality intellectually, i had studied it as a meditator, i had studied it as a person with a PhD in religious studies and comparative mysticism, but this, i would say, was my first actual experience of it, and at that point I realized everything that I’d ever thought about this experience was merely that, a thought, a thought that my ego had that was boxed into various concepts and words and related to my own sense of identity, my own sense of subject-object separation, and this event completely transcended all thought, transcended all language, transcended all subject-object duality and went into a place of non-duality. And from that point then I started undergoing this radical process of energetic reformatting And through that again, there’s a lot of details, there’s a lot of points to it. For anybody who’s listening or watching, that’s this book Being Infinite in an Theogenic Odyssey into the Limitless Eternal a memoir from ayahuasca to zen. This is the book that I wrote about my journey and my process, and many people asked me about it. I said, shit, i should just write a book so I can just give them the book and I don’t have to tell all the details. So that’s this one here. What year did I publish that one? 2014.

Speaker 3: So I learned how to be myself And it wasn’t what I had thought And really gave myself permission to okay this universal consciousness of being. It is a being of energy. The energy itself is pure, unconditional love. Pure unconditional love means guess what? anything goes, because there are no conditions, meaning that it’s up to you to be yourself and also take responsibility for yourself. You can be an asshole if you want, but then you have to take responsibility for that. You have to come with the consequences of being an asshole. You can be an overly compassionate, self-negating person if you want, but then you have to take responsibility for that and you get the consequences of that, but you are shut down.

Speaker 3: And so finding that balance of how do I just be myself, be authentically myself and also invite that from others, that I’ve found this freedom within myself and want to encourage and invite that freedom within others, were kind of giving up any sense of control, either of myself or of others or of outcomes, and being present with reality as it is, without projections, without attachments, and just coming from a place of embodied centeredness and clarity, and it’s fucking liberating. It does not solve all of your problems. It does not fix anything for you other than give you that sense of I am truly being myself, and I have full permission to embody myself in any given moment. So I’m not holding back anymore, i’m not trying to be anything for anyone according to anyone’s standards, other than that own resonance that I have within my heart of am I being true to myself? And that is the highest value that I think anybody could live for. So that’s the point. And it also removes the bullshit, it removes the delusions, it removes the projections and attachments, so you just live from a place of clarity, which is the greatest gift you could ever possibly give yourself.

Speaker 3: So that’s why I say that, look, if you really want to do yourself a favor, learn who you are and then learn how to be yourself. That’s really all you need to do. You don’t need to be a master of ethics, you don’t need to be a master of meditation. You can be if you want, but the job of being yourself is your job and your responsibility and you have the power to do it. Or you can live in the illusions, you can live in the lies, you can live in the games of the ego and all the value and meaning that the egos invest in all of that. And you know, i’d rather live an authentic life than a life invested into the games of the ego and the illusions that it projects onto reality, because it’s just not all that fun. That’s the point. That’s the point.

Speaker 2: That’s the fucking love of man Like. I mean, this is what rage are. This is, you know, rage. Art unleashed the beast, like part of what I say when I’m starting a rage, and I call them rages, not meditations and not exercises rages. Part of it’s remember who you are, cause I had this. I mean, i’ve had a bunch of things happen during. You know, it’s always been ceremonies for me, it’s. You know, i’ve meditated a lot, but it’s usually when these things happen for me, it’s during, say, ayahuasca or mushrooms or LSD.

Speaker 2: I was in Thailand at the time and I went to see the Lion King with my girlfriend at the time And you’ve seen the Lion King right. If you want to learn more about Rageheart and how to use these ideas, these tools, these techniques to unleash the beast inside you, to start to get all the ideas and all the programs and all the bullshit from the past out of the way So you can just be yourself right, so you can remember who you are. So I’m about to explain in the story about Simbu and the Lion King and Thailand about two weeks before an ayahuasca ceremony, if you want to do that for yourself. Of course, plant medicine has been part of my journey. That doesn’t mean it has to be part of yours. But a crucial piece for me was the tools.

Speaker 2: I teach what we talk about in this podcast. But if you want to learn more, the best place to begin is to go to rageheart.co That’s like Braveheart bit rageheart.co and sign up for what I call the Daily Growl, which is a daily email newsletter where I go into more detail about how to work with the nervous system, how to clear out old survival stress, all the fuzzy stuff from the past, how to get rid of all that that’s weighing you down So that authenticity that Martin and I are talking about can start to shine through. Naturally, it’s not something you have to do or make happen. We just have to get the bullshit out of the way. So if you want to do that and you want to learn more about how to do that with Rageheart, go to rageheart.co. Like I said, sign up for the Daily Growl and get ready to receive some interesting and sometimes mildly offensive emails, and you’ve seen The Lion King right.

Speaker 3: Oh yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah, both versions. So Simba goes-.

Speaker 3: And the live action.

Speaker 2: The new one. Yeah, so this was the new one, the live action, i think. And it gets to that part where Simba runs away from his family and then he’s in the jungle with Timon and Pumbaa and he’s forgotten who he is. He thinks he’s basically like Timon and Pumbaa, like a her before eating bugs. All the time The Nala comes along the girl line that he ends up falling in love with later, but she comes along to try and take him back. He doesn’t want to go. Eventually the monkey comes and sort of gets him to, gets Simba to chase the monkey all the way down to some water And Simba looks in the water and sees his dad and he looks up His dad’s in the clouds And his dad says remember who you are. And yeah, as soon as that happened this is in the cinema I burst into tears And I was sobbing for the rest of the movie until the end of the credits. I’d never just that phrase remember who you are. And then I took that in with me two or three weeks later into an ayahuasca ceremony.

Speaker 2: Just the cra I can’t even put it into words. As you know, the craziest shit happened And all related to this remembering, tapping into that sense of being connecting with, the sense of we’re all one. It sounds so cheesy, but it’s a very real thing that we can tap into. And so I mean from I’m just really just trying to, i guess, reinforce or echo back what you’re saying. It’s incredible Every time. I sort of I’m not in that all the time, but when it comes through it’s the most amazing thing, the most amazing feeling, the most amazing, whatever it is. But it’s very difficult to actually explain to someone what you can talk about it conceptually. But then we’re back at the level of ideas again. It’s hard to this, it’s that, it’s this or that, but so much of it or all of it is. When all of that falls away, it’s. You can’t put a nonverbal experience into a word because it’s no longer a nonverbal experience.

Speaker 2: It’s anyway, I just love it, Like I’m all about this stuff, And that’s what Raychart is all about is giving people tools, not spiritual tools They don’t have to meditate but ways to actually figure this stuff out. That’s more connected with the nervous system and learning how to feel. What is that authentic self? Because you can’t, I, tell people like, it’s not something you can’t think about, It’s not something you decide for yourself. You are just who you are And it’s just learning how to feel for that, getting to know it and then giving it space and room to just do what it wants to do.

Speaker 3: Yeah, and just to kind of echo off of what you’re saying there, that you know it’s been a while since I’ve given a talk in front of a large audience of people, but I used to do that a lot And that was one of the things that I would kind of start my talks off with is I would say, okay, so let’s say there’s 500 people in the audience that say how many people here would like to feel that you could authentically be yourself in any given moment? And everybody would raise their hand. Everybody would say, yeah, i want that. And I’d say, okay, how many of you feel that you’re actually doing that? And maybe one to no hands would go up And I’d say, so, that’s what we’re here to talk about, that everybody wants this, yet no one feels that they has it and they don’t know how to get it. They don’t know how to get there, and that’s the fundamental problem. That’s what we’re looking to overcome is the limitations of the ego, that you are the one holding yourself back, and I like that you use this example of the Lion King, because even there we can see. So the way that I would characterize it is that human consciousness development has been stunted and held at a phase that is not really the ultimate unfolding of our consciousness and of our being.

Speaker 3: So here’s Simba serves as a good example. So Scar, scar, who is greedy for power? Scar wants power. Right, that’s Simba’s uncle. He’s greedy for power, which is his ego. The ego wants power, wants control. So he manipulates a situation that kills. What’s Simba’s dad’s name? Mufasa, mufasa, mufasa, yeah, mufasa. So Mufasa dies And then Scar comes over to the still developing consciousness of little Simba and says oh, simba, this is your fault, you need to run away.

Speaker 3: So this is what happens to children, is that children observe sort of the wounded projecting, grasping egos of adults And take on what those adults tell them and how they inform them. This is how you’re supposed to be. So then Simba develops a self image of himself, of I’ve been very bad and I’ve been so bad I have to completely suppress all of this, run away and then lose myself with Timon and Pumba. So then he develops a new identity that’s just oh, i’m carefree, i’m happy, hakuna Matata, all that good shit. And so he’s now taken on a traumatic wound. He has used that to inform his identity and then he goes about avoiding it.

Speaker 3: So this is what we do as human beings is we take on these patterns that are injected into us by the adults that surround us as children, and then we form an identity. And then we either play into that identity we’re gonna be what mom and dad or society wants us to be or we play against it and say, well, i’m gonna be a rebel, or I’m gonna suppress that, or I’m gonna dissociate from that. So there’s all different ways that we react to it. But then we develop our adult persona and ego and then we get locked into oh, this is who I am. And so then, even there, simba realizes okay, whoa, i have to remember who I am. But notice that in the context of the story it is oh, i am the king. So I have these responsibilities and I have to go back and I have to overthrow Scar and I have to get rid of all the hyenas and Hakuna Matata Circle of Life, all that shit. And so this is a reflection of a more mature, adult ego that he develops.

Speaker 3: And here, this is where I wanna say so, this is where a lot of people have developed at us Like okay, well, what is my responsibility as a husband, as a father, as a person employed in this business. You know, i’m gonna maintain those responsibilities, i’m gonna take care of my childhood traumas and my bullshit And I’m gonna do a good job of being the king or whatever it is that I am. And so that’s kind of where we’ve plateaued in terms of egoic development, and so what I see is our natural birthright, in sort of the next stage of human evolution, is okay. Now let’s all go beyond that, that. Let’s get Simba to remember who he really is. He is not just the king. He actually is the universal consciousness, performing as the king, performing as Simba, performing as the wounded child. He is all of these things. And so what we’d like to refer to as a, you know, a mature, well-integrated, high-functioning adult is actually stuck still at a particular egoic level.

Speaker 3: And so what? in my book Being Human I think that’s where I first kind of played with this line you’re just saying, look, human beings are basically god-toddlers. We’re all running around with this self-awareness, which is really amazing, and we’ve got these egos, but we’re basically god-toddlers that we are not fully taking responsibility for ourselves because we’re going around like, oh God, will you do this for me in spirits? Will you do this for me in ancestors, will you do this for me? or President Trump Will you do this for me? or QAnon Will you do this for me? or whoever the fuck we’re putting our power and authority onto, rather than looking at oh, no one can actually do anything for me at that level.

Speaker 3: Because I am it, i need to take responsibility for myself, and at that point I think that we would just transcend beyond all religions, all political ideologies, all of these, what I call meta-egos. So we have the personal ego, which is me, martin, and then the meta-ego can be oh, i’m a member of the quote unquote psychedelic community, so that’s part of my meta-ego. I actually don’t feel like I’m part of the psychedelic community. So I just made that one up where I could say oh, i’m a musician and I play these styles of music, so I’m part of this group of musicians. But even there, i actually refer to my music as a shape-shifting music because I don’t adhere to any particular style or genre. But anyway, we developed these meta-egos to say I’m part of this group and this group has this identity and has these values and these purposes and has this authority and this power. And so I see all of this as just a relative conventional construct of egoic patterns of identity and awareness, and I’d like to see human beings transcend all of that And going back to this idea that, yeah, we literally are all one.

Speaker 3: The problem is that a lot of people who say that and think that think that they’ve gotta do something to make us all one. It’s like you can’t do anything to make us all one because we already are. So it’s about remembering that and embodying that, that it’s nothing that we can achieve. We can’t achieve oneness because everything is one, everything already is one. It’s just the way things are. But we haven’t lived that way And we have had certain religions and certain philosophies and certain political systems that have tried to augment our appreciation of that reality. But it usually comes from a contrived, egoic place And therefore it’s not the real deal. It’s still just a construct.

Speaker 3: So it’s really the question of how do we get beyond the constructs, and this is where entheogens are invaluable.

Speaker 3: But even there, i do like to say that 99.99% of all psychedelic experiences are dualistic in nature.

Speaker 3: Only a very tiny fraction of them are non-dualistic in nature, where you actually transcend beyond the subject-object divide, and that’s why 5MEO-DMT is uniquely unique in that it is the only entheogen that can reliably give us access to those non-dual states of awareness where we have this ego death experience, where we completely transcend our sense of separation and subject-object space time here, there, me, not me and go into the state of unity and then learn who we are from that state, whereas most psychedelic experiences are still dualistic in nature of oh look, i’m seeing these things, i’m thinking these thoughts, these experiences are happening to me.

Speaker 3: So there’s still that divide between subject and object. And that’s just because the ego, as an energetic construct and collection of energetic patterns, is incredibly resilient, as it should be, that it needs to be resilient in order to maintain itself. So it takes a lot of energy to actually break that apart. So mostly what we get from psychedelic experiences is we have a disruption of the egoic identity And we have a decoupling from some of the patterns of the egoic identity, but we don’t have a full transcendence of them. And that’s where 5MEO DMT is just very unique that it’s powerful enough to actually overcome the resilience of the ego so that we can escape the event horizon of the black hole of the ego that looks to suck everything into its orbit and create meaning from that perspective. That’s kind of a mouthful.

Speaker 2: So what about playing the devil’s advocate again? I imagine someone might think oh, that sounds cool. You have a nice experience, you go and do a 5MEO ceremony And that’s great. What happens the next day, though? How much of that experience stays with you And how much sort of dissolves, how much is reliance on the 5MEO, and how much becomes integrated and embodied.

Speaker 3: Yeah, well, that’s kind of the question with all psychedelic experiences. And here, of course, this is a place where I always like to say look, results vary because it depends on the person. It depends on how they’re approaching it, what they’re looking to get out of it and how they are choosing to work with it as a process. And that’s why my book in Theogenic Liberation that I use this kind of, created this neologism, this idea of unraveling the enigma of non-duality with 5MEO, DMT, energetic therapy. So it’s not therapy in a conventional sense, but I’m using the word therapy rather than spiritual practice, because it’s not a practice. But it’s this idea of look through my ego. My ego has created a lot of self-limitations within me where I’ve identified I want to be like this, I don’t want to be like that. I allow myself to express these thoughts, these other ones I keep secret. I let myself say these things, these other things I won’t say. So we create all these limitations for ourselves And then we inhabit them And what happens is we get a backlog of energy within the body that has not been expressed because we’ve been too busy playing the bullshit game. And so this idea of energetic therapy is that all these energies, these emotions, these thoughts they’re all stored within the body And so if we can use these as tools to help unlock and this is where we’re getting into the growling, the moving around, the releasing of energy that you’ve already described that that becomes a process of actually removing that backlog and clearing out the system. And ideally that should also be coupled with ongoing self-analysis and awareness, meaning that we need to catch ourselves like you know what. There’s that egoic pattern of mine. I was just about to shut myself down, I was just about to criticize myself for not being good enough. I was just to tell myself what I’m supposed to do, which it wasn’t what I felt like I wanted to do. So we have to become aware of these patterns and so that we’re not just taking all this stuff that we’ve released and then like, oh shit, I’ve got to go stuff it all back in again because now I’m uncomfortable. We have to take responsibility for ourselves. So it’s part of a process.

Speaker 3: One of the things that I like to emphasize is that I’m not interested in one-off experiences. Sometimes people approach psychedelics and are like oh, I’m looking for a big insight. Give me some big insights. I want some downloads, I want information, And for me that’s the ego that’s looking for stuff And that’s kind of the one-off approach. But this idea of, look, I probably have a backlog of unreleased energies and that I’m probably actually rather contorted within my being because I get these knots of energy within myself that create my anxiety, my fear, whatever it is, And then it’s going to take a while to actually unravel that, then to release it and then to become aware of, hey, this is the pattern that created that in the first place. So how do I avoid recreating that now and take full responsibility for myself? So in that sense, it’s a form of therapy that you are looking to unwind these places, release the backlog and then start learning how to operate from a place of energetic authenticity so that you don’t recreate those conditions for yourself.

Speaker 3: And so that is a process of what I like to call self-liberation, And that’s another big one that sometimes we go like oh, I just want to get the teachings from this guru, or I want to sit with this shaman, or I want to go to this workshop, or I need to read this book, And we’re always looking for somebody to feed us the answers and to give us purpose, give us meaning, give us something to do, And this is about self-liberation. That’s really this idea that only you have the ability to liberate yourself. Nobody else can do it for you. And even there, even the liberation is a little bit of an illusion, because you already are this universal consciousness and being. It’s actually just learning how to trust and let go, so that you can just allow yourself to be that, that all forms of trying are instituted through the ego. It’s the ego that tries And what you learn is that, oh, I just need to let myself be myself, I need to let myself be my authentic energy, And that I’ve been trying to be nice, I’ve been trying to be cool, I’ve been trying to be popular, I’ve been trying to be successful, I’ve been trying to be influential, I’ve been trying, trying, trying, trying, trying.

Speaker 3: And it’s exhausting. We invest way too much energy in trying and not enough energy into just being, because being is effortless. It’s going to happen whether you try it or not. And that’s where it’s just this sense of going back to that question that I asked And again, that sort of what’s the point. It’s like I like to say look, when you get to your death bed and when you know like, ah shit. I think it’s time.

Speaker 3: Would you like to look back on your life and say, well, it might not have been everything that I wanted it to be And I might not have achieved everything that I wanted to achieve, But at least I was myself all the way through And I can live at peace in my heart, knowing that I didn’t miss out on being myself. But if we get to our death bed, it’s like fuck. I’ve spent my entire life trying to be something for this idea that I had, that was the ideal, And I was never happy, never fulfilled, never satisfied. And whose fault is that? Fuck, it was my fault. What I’d rather be at that point where you’re giving up the ghost and saying you know what? I’ve done my best to be in myself And that’s really all I could do. So cool Time’s up, Time to go.

Speaker 2: It’s funny, man. There’s a few things that I want to say. One thing is that they’ve done studies. I don’t know how comprehensive they are, i’m not a scientist, but there’s a study or news article out there where some lady went and asked people what was the biggest regret in their life Biggest five, top five regrets. I can’t remember them all, but one of them was I wish I was more true to myself. It wasn’t. I wish I spent more time at work. I wish I made more money. I wish I had more boats or whatever. Yeah, one of the top regrets was I wish I was true to myself.

Speaker 3: The other thing before.

Speaker 2: I forget is. I mean, you know, I’m living in Peru at the moment, So I’m working quite fairly frequently, probably compared to most people, with plant medicine. I ask you, and what tumor as well? And the thing that I keep learning. I mean I keep you know I’ll learn it and then I’ll forget about it. Then I learn it and I forget about it is basically what you said, But it’s like all my ideas about everything I just getting in the way of everything And especially it’s so clear to me on the plant, So I’ll have an idea about I’ve got this issue and it’s because of this happened.

Speaker 2: And now it’s set up this dynamic in myself, like I’ve read books about trauma and psychology, Like I think I get what’s really going on And I just keep learning that every time I do that, every time I try and put a box around my experience and think I know what’s really going on, it blocks the magic of these, these beautiful medicines, plant medicine, And when I can just sit back and let go and let go of the mind, let go of my ideas and just feel, And it’s not comfortable sometimes because it’s like hitting stuff in the body, that’s like, oh that really hurts.

Speaker 2: And it’s really trying to. It’s like you said in your mushroom video. It’s learning to relax around these spots of tension, so then the energy can start to flow. But it’s very much a process. I’ve been doing this for a while not as long as you by the sound of it, but it just takes time And it’s really. Sometimes it’s great, sometimes it’s incredible. It’s the best journey I’ve ever been on. Sometimes it absolutely sucks, but you do it Well, i do it anyway.

Speaker 3: Yeah. So here is where, again, five MEO DMT is really unique, because this kind of goes back to your earlier question in terms of like, what does it look like and what’s the point? What, like? how do you help this land within yourself? So, again, in most psychedelic experiences we’re still grappling with the ego and we’re experiencing, ok yeah, there’s the ego in the way, there’s the ego trying, there’s the ego thinking about things. There’s there’s ego wanting to have a plan, wanting to have a solution, there’s the ego wanting to avoid. Oh, there’s discomfort. I want to squirm.

Speaker 3: And you know let’s just call it out that it’s hard for the ego to get out of the way, because it’s kind of it’s perpetual business is to get in the way. So just getting it to drop and fall away is very, very difficult. And this is why a lot of people turn to meditation, because meditation is a way of at least quieting the mind. But even there we have somewhat of a misidentification that the ego is the mind, when the ego is not the mind, that the ego is in the body. It’s actually how we are identifying with our expressions within the body. But anyway, so with five MEO DMT, what can happen is that, if the ego does fully get all the way out of the way, suddenly the body starts to respond and to release and process energy in a way that is completely free and unencumbered. So, for example, someone thinks, oh my God, i’m dying. Now at that point the ego can say, oh shit, no, i’m scared, and it can clamp on and have a very difficult experience. Or the ego can say I’m dying, ok, cool, this is awesome And it gets out of the way. So then if somebody has a lot of repressed trauma, at that point it will spontaneously come up and out of them. So they just might start screaming bloody murder, they might start crying, they might start throwing up all over the place And even a really common one on five MEO, dmts for people to throw up and then put it in their hands and like smear it all over their bodies, where they’re kind of reveling in this state of ecstatic release of all this negative energy that they’ve been storing and self-loathing and self-hatred and criticism that they’re letting it out, and they’re just in this state of unconditional love where they don’t care, like, oh, i’ll just rub it all over myself because I’m just ecstatic that I’m in this state.

Speaker 3: And so there’s these profound cleaning out of these stored energies, and it’s not processed through the ego, it’s not processed through the mind, it’s something that the body just does all on its own. And this is really one of the great gifts of five MEO DMT that, because it can energetically override the ego, it allows for this processing and releasing of energy to take place at a very spontaneous and fully authentic level. And then, about halfway through the experience, you start to feel the first layers of egoic identity come back. And that’s a place where, then, people can start to consciously observe oh, there’s my identification, there’s what I think I should do. So, for example, if someone just smeared vomit all over themselves, the ego comes back and the ego says, oh my God, this is disgusting, i can’t believe, i just did this in front of these people, i’m so embarrassed. And then the person can say, yeah, but actually it’s all OK, you don’t need to be embarrassed, this is quite beautiful, you can allow yourself to be this, you can allow yourself to have this experience. So that’s where, as the ego comes back, people get the opportunity to really see this is what I’ve been telling myself to be, this is how I’ve been limiting myself. Look at all this crap I had stored up in me and I didn’t even know it was there. That’s another thing It’s usually surprising that you can take. People are like, oh, i’m totally well adjusted, i don’t have any traumas to release, i don’t have any backlog of energy, i’m totally myself, right. And then all this shit comes out and it’s like well, i don’t think you were, were you, so it just it operates on a level that we don’t see with other psychedelic medicines. And then if you can couple your work with five or more DMT with these other more dualistically interactive medicines, then it takes these other ones to new levels. So you know, honestly, a lot of people who have been in the ayahuasca scene, when they get to five MEO, a lot of them are like I don’t know why I’d ever drink ayahuasca again, because five MEO DMT is like so much more profound and effective. But for those who do that, it’s changes your relationship, that you start to understand the experience in the process quite differently. So it can be very effective And I generally do recommend that people who are undergoing again I call this energetic, reformatting recalibration, if you’re interested in doing that.

Speaker 3: Actually working with a variety of different entheogens is quite valuable because each one presents a different spectrum of energy. So if you kind of look at the electromagnetic spectrum that we’ve got infrared, we’ve got ultraviolet, we’ve got the visible light spectrum and each psychedelic medicine kind of gives you a different band within that spectrum. The thing about five MEO is the entire spectrum, it’s the whole thing, but others are more limited. So ayahuasca gives you this range, mushrooms gives you this range, alvedivinorm gives you this really weird freaky range over here in these subterranean energies. But working with different entheogens are different energetic tools And you can essentially learn how to vibe into them and synchronize and resonate with that energy so that you take on these different energetic formations as you move through that process. And it allows accessing. You know, like MDMA it’s really good for if you’re like closed off in your heart, mdma is really good because it opens that shit up.

Speaker 3: If you’re dealing with a lot of tension and anxiety, things like mushrooms and ayahuasca work really well because they’re working down in your gut And that’s where we tend to hold on to. Tension, and anxiety is more down in the abdomen. You know, there’s just lots of different ways that applies, but it’s about getting into our energy and allowing ourselves to express and release and then find how do I bring that same level of freedom to? when somebody asked me, like how are you doing today, do I just give them the canned answer of oh, i’m doing great, or is actually I’m having a pretty profound day today. I just had some deep insights into the nature of being, or it could be actually I’m having a horrible day. I just got diagnosed with cancer and I’m feeling a little bit depressed about it, but you know, i’m managing the best I can.

Speaker 3: You know, it’s just this level of honesty of actually just speaking from where we truly are at in any given moment and allowing our voice, allowing our tone, allowing the energy behind the words to consistently match, and so like, if you ask somebody, how are you doing today And they’re like, oh well, i’m just really having a terrible day, but man, it’s great, he’s like whoa, the energy behind your words. There is really fucked up that there’s no consistency there between the energy and what you just spoke and the words that you said and the ideas that you’re trying to communicate to me. So I’m just looking for can we just get that consistency that I am always speaking from, that place of authenticity, and then my voice will modulate according to what I’m actually thinking and feeling and allowing that to come through.

Speaker 2: I love this man. It seems like you know. Once upon a time, you know, i would be journaling and meditating and doing all this stuff, trying to fiddle with the mind, and if I could just figure out the mind then it would all click in. And you know, over time, working with these plants and some of the nervous system stuff, it’s become clear, to me at least, that it’s all about the energy, or whether we say energy, survival, stress, trauma, just this stuff that hides in the body, and my experience now with it is that the mind, all these thoughts I’d like built or can just there, just leaves on a tree, or they do that, or built.

Speaker 2: You pick your metaphor out of all this stuff we carry in the body. If we can clear it in the body and often we can clear it from the body, whether it’s a five ml or different practices, without it even having to think about it. We don’t even need to know where it’s from, what happened, what it’s all about. We don’t even need to have a memory about it. It can just come up and out and it’s gone. It’s beautiful like it’s. So to me it’s been such a weight off because it’s like I don’t need to understand everything. I don’t need to have a story or a narrative for everything I’m feeling. I can just feel it and then it’s gone. Feel it and then it goes to really simple, yeah, not easy?

Speaker 3: Yeah, it is. It’s too simple that the ego reacts to it. So you know, i spent seven years facilitating five mt experiences with clients and you know all these massive energies would arise within these events and there’d be all these things releasing and all these things transforming, and you know I’d be working with clients and different energies would be moving through me and all of this stuff. And afterwards it was really common for people to say, well, what, what was that? that big energy that jumped out of me? where did that come from? and they don’t really know. And also people asked me like okay, well, what did you see? what’s your interpretation? and I would always just have them look, it’s just, it’s just energy. Okay, it’s just energy, you don’t need to know that. If you really need to know, you’ll know. But otherwise it’s just suppressed energy that hasn’t been released.

Speaker 3: And I would use this kind of crass metaphor and say look, let’s imagine that your toilet is clogged. Okay, what’s your number one priority? You probably want your toilet to flush. You want the thing to work correctly, right? So that’s what we’re doing right now getting your system to work properly. But if you want, we can sit around and we can look in the bowl is like, wow, what did that person eat? did they have enough fiber in their diet? what’s going on there? who clogged this thing up and why did they do it? you know it’s like do you, do you want to get less over the shit in the bowl or do you want the thing to work properly?

Speaker 3: So that that’s where I’m on, honest, like, look, it’s all energy, your job is to ride with it. And then we have to keep in mind all of our thoughts are energies, literally their brainwaves happening and electrical firings of our neurons in our head. And then our emotions are energies that arise up within our being, from our heart, that we can feel, and then everything, everything we’ve ever sensed, is energy. Light is just energy, sound is energy, tactile sensation is just nice, solid, rough, smooth, cold, slick, hot energy. Right, we, energy is all around us, we are energy, everything is energy in one form or another, and our job as a vehicle of the one universal consciousness is just to be in sync with what is and allow and all these energies arise up, and it’s our job to embody them and express them, and then they release and let go, and then we move on, and that’s every moment.

Speaker 3: You know, the most succinct definition of energy is the potential for change. So as I’m speaking, i am changing the sound waves. So that’s energy. I see things because the light waves are vibrating and changing and I can say, oh, different colors, look at that, right.

Speaker 3: So energy is just change, so it’s been and finding that way into being in a state of essentially continual flow, of not getting in our own way, not putting up barriers and restrictions, so that we can energetically be in the flow of what is and be present with it, whether we’re having a conversation, watching TV, deep in a psychedelic experience or dying or whatever it is that we’re doing, just to be present with the energy of what is and allow it to the best of our ability. And the more we can do that, the more we feel centered, at peace, present and authentic within our lives. And so, again, that’s the gift that we can give ourselves, and only we can give it to ourselves. It’s not about believing the right things, it’s not about being the right kind of person, it’s not about adopting the right identity. All of that is just the ego. It’s just about allowing yourself to be as you are, naturally, uncontrived, without restrictions. So it’s simple, it’s tricky to actually get there.

Speaker 2: Well, i mean, it’s funny, You know the thing I think of there is so often I’ve made this mistake before I think, oh, when I’ve cleared all this stuff, cleared all this energy, then I can be where you’re talking about. But that’s an element of that, i suppose at play, like, as we clean, more we do, you know, there’s more peace, there’s more happiness, there’s more joy. But it starts right now. It’s like learning to be, like whatever you’re feeling right now, whatever we’re all feeling. It’s learning to be with that tension, pain That starts there. It’s not about like waiting, going, okay, i’ll be happy and peaceful Once I’ve cleared all that, with five MEO and meditation and a wasco, it’s going no learning to be learning to hold that space for yourself right now, with whatever’s going on for you.

Speaker 3: Yeah, it’s not an end goal achievement. It is about how to reorient to being right here right now and really allowing that. And you know, this is the thing is that also, sometimes people get a really sort of idealized version of what they think this is And they think like, oh, if I could do that, if I could liberate myself, i’m just going to be happy and ecstatic all the time. Reality is just going to, i’m going to be, you know, gifted with reality giving me everything I need, because I’ll just be in this perfect state of synchronization. And that’s all just projections of the ego, because guess what? Shit’s going to happen, stuff’s going to go wrong, stuff’s going to be uncomfortable And you are eventually going to fall apart, disintegrate and die. You’re all going to die eventually And there’s going to be a lot of shit in between now and then when that happens. And so it’s not about achieving some idealized state And it’s not about avoiding what is uncomfortable or thinking that, you know, if I just get an alignment, i mean it’s just so endemic and spiritual circles that I’m going to be healthy all the time And I’m going to have all the money that I need all the time, because I’m actually just creating my reality, so I’m going to manifest everything for myself perfectly. I mean, if there’s one word that encapsulates the modern spiritual egoic attachment, it’s manifesting this idea that I’m just manifesting my reality And I’m going to give myself all the good things all the time.

Speaker 3: It’s like that is such an overstatement of the ego. It just really it rubs me the wrong way. I don’t like idealized states that because everything changes, it changes. That’s the thing is, it’s changing all the time. There is no idealized state, but you can still relax and be yourself. That’s not a permanent state, it’s a actually. It’s a permanent changing really.

Speaker 2: On that note, if someone is listening to this and wants to do this kind of a thing, of course, if they have access to 5MEO or a OASC, people can come to Peru. Of course, how do you, let’s say, they don’t have access to psychedelics or they’re not in a position where they don’t feel ready to say, do it. They don’t want to do that yet because, for whatever reason, what tools or what things could you recommend for someone to get into this kind of a feeling of energy and all that kind of stuff?

Speaker 3: Yeah, there’s a variety of different ways that I like to recommend, so we can start with some of the most basic One is start being honest, and it seems easy. It’s not, because there’s probably a lot of things that are convincing you in your life to not be honest. And so when I say be honest, that I tell people be honest with yourself internally and externally, meaning don’t bullshit yourself. And that’s a hard one, because a lot of people have a lot of beliefs and a lot of ideas and a lot of desires. That to really be honest means don’t accept anything is true that you don’t know with absolute certainty as being true, and you know what that includes, like most things. So that’s a big one, you know. Like if people say, well, i believe in God, or I believe in an afterlife, or I believe in divine spirits, like well, do you know that for certain? Do you know any of that is real? You have to be honest with yourself. Or if you’re committed to a political ideology that you’re going to have certain values like I believe the free market is best Why You know whatever it is. So start to be honest with yourself. And also, you know notice when you are critiquing and judging yourself when you are telling yourself that you need to be a certain way or say a certain thing, and start to pay attention to how you’re vocalizing.

Speaker 3: Does my tone of voice actually match what it is that I’m trying to say? What patterns do I have? Like, for example, i know some people who giggle all the time and they might say something like oh, i’m having a really hard day today, ha ha ha. Like whoa, whoa, what is that energy? Like whoa, how does that fit with what you just told me? You know are people who are overly happy all the time, like, oh, i’m just having the best day, it’s so great to see you, it’s so beautiful, it’s like OK, i think you’re overplaying it. And the same with people who are just like it’s all hopeless, it’s all to terror and destruction. You know, it’s like we, through the ego, we indulge in these patterns, we indulge in these things. So it’s just an invitation to start paying attention to yourself. And like am I really just being honest? Am I expressing what I really think, what I really feel? Am I trying to tell people what I think they want to hear? Am I trying to be a certain way in order to please my idealized version of my parents or of God or of society, or am I allowing myself to be myself? And so you just start to ask yourself these questions.

Speaker 3: And then I like to tell people, you know, just try it with the simple things. Like somebody asks you like, hey, do you want a glass of water? And you know you might say, oh, just to be polite, oh, yeah, great, i’d love some water, but maybe I’m not actually thirsty right now. So practice with the little things. Say, try saying you know what, i’m good right now, but if I get thirsty I’ll ask you when I’m ready, you know. Or if somebody invites you over for dinner and you think, oh shit, well, it’s been two weeks since I’ve gone over to mom’s and you know I really owe her a meal. But if you don’t feel like it’s, like you know what, mom, i really appreciate that you invited me over for dinner, but I’m kind of feeling like doing something else tonight. So I’ll let you know another time when I feel like we can connect, you know, just so starting to kind of stand up For yourself and actually pay attention to where.

Speaker 3: Am I really? Am I a people pleaser? Am I habitual naysayer? Am I a grumpy fuck. You know, whatever it may be, you start to pay attention and you start to be honest, and that gives you more self awareness and more freedom. So that’s a real basic one that people can do, but it’s tricky because there’s a lot of pressures to perform as certain ways And then you can start to ask yourself have I created conditions in my life that make it difficult for me to really be honest with myself?

Speaker 3: So, for example, you know I don’t want to urge anyone to just immediately quit their job or anything, but maybe you’re working a job where you feel like you’re really just not being authentically yourself and not being really in tune with yourself. So it might mean making some big life changes. Like for me, i did want to leave my wife. I waited for years, hoping that something would happen so that I didn’t have to do the hard work of making the choice. But when it came down to this, like, look, i’m not happy in this relationship. I haven’t been happy in this relation for a long time. Nobody else is going to change it, i have to change it. So sometimes you do have to take big steps in order to be honest with yourself.

Speaker 3: Ok, now another one is looking at. Where do you put your allegiance? So this gets back into the question of meta egos. Right, that you can start to ask like, well, why do I always dress this way? Is because I want to be part of this particular group or that. Why do I profess these political ideologies? Do I want to be part of this group? Like, what does that mean? And what meta egos am I attached to?

Speaker 3: You know, it’s one thing to say, for example, yeah, i live in the United States, so I’m an American. But it’s really different to say, yeah, america’s number one, we’re totally exceptional, we’re the best in the fucking world. Man, america number one. There I’m really investing my identity into this meta ego, this idealized state. So you can start to examine that in your life. Like, where am I attaching my ego? And is that really me? And is it really even real, you know, for people to say, yeah, america’s number one. Well, we’ve got some of the worst health care in the world. We’ve got terrible education. We have just this totally dysfunctional political system. We’re built on slavery and genocide. What makes us the best? I mean, where does that even come from This? we are the best, we’re number one. So you can start to examine that.

Speaker 3: Now here’s where it gets into something that is really quite interesting, and this is asymmetry versus symmetry. So all of these things that I’m describing with the ego, notice that it’s all based on asymmetries, that the ego says I like this, i don’t like that, i want this, i don’t want that, i’m going to allow myself to be this way, i’m not going to allow myself to be that way, i’m going to believe these things, i’m not going to believe those things. So we create all these internal asymmetries, so we become more one-sided, essentially. And also, i just invite anyone just to pay attention to this just notice that almost everything that you do interacting through subject-object duality between yourself and the world, is accomplished through asymmetries. This is very natural. So, for example, if I want to drink a water right now, i reach out with my right hand because my water is to my right And I take it and I drink it, and then I put it down. Look at that. And so there’s a physical asymmetry there, and there might also be an internal asymmetry where I was like OK, i also, i have prayed to this water and I’ve invested it with all of this good juju, and in drinking this, i am bringing myself to my highest state of awareness. So I could also project all of these ideas onto reality. But it’s still an asymmetry because it’s one kind of projection versus not another kind of projection. And then also, if I want to write something, i write left-handed, so I have to grab my pen with my left hand, and so here’s subject-object relationship. So everything that I’m engaging in in reality is accomplished through these physical asymmetries in my being.

Speaker 3: Now, one of the things that I learned early on is first I experienced this in myself and then I started paying attention to how this was showing up in other people’s experiences is that when I went beyond my ego and my 5MEO DMT experience, my body naturally and spontaneously exhibited mirrored bilateral symmetry. So my body would just move, and Martin was not controlling those movements. These movements were just happening And I thought about it. Well, what happens when somebody wins a race? When somebody wins a race, they go, yeah, they open up in this nice star position where there’s this nice symmetry. They’re not relating to subject and object. What they’re doing is they’re expressing a feeling that is exploding out of them. So this energy is opening up from the center place. So this is one of the basic guidelines that I use.

Speaker 3: I tell people start paying attention to your own asymmetries, your internal asymmetries and your external asymmetries, because that will show you how your ego is interacting with yourself and with the world. And then I also recommend so start actually spending some time embodying yourself with bilateral symmetry And that when you do this because the ego functions through energetic asymmetries it actually makes it harder for the ego to engage Because it can’t rely on its normal asymmetrical patterning. So, for example, if you’re in a difficult situation, you’re feeling really stressed by something. What I tell people is go into a state of symmetry I call this a neutral position where the left and right sides of your body are relaxed, open and mirroring each other. And then notice, as you think about your problem. You might want to squirm or you might want to fidget, and so you can start to see oh, look how these asymmetries are playing themselves out through my being, or you might want to turn away from what’s bothering you Like. Oftentimes, if people are uncomfortable, they’ll present sort of one shoulder to you Because they feel like, oh, i’ve got to protect myself, and so they go into an asymmetrical posture.

Speaker 3: So when you’re uncomfortable, actually try just facing things head on, like that, and then also kind of feeling into how do I face reality head on in this way, knowing that if I’m facing it my vulnerability is exposed. So it’s kind of going into this idea of can I allow myself to be vulnerable? Can I also find strength in being vulnerable? Can I engage from this place of symmetry rather than falling into the asymmetrical patterns? And then the more you do this, the more you find that actually, by asymmetries are operating unconsciously within me. I didn’t even know I was doing it, but now that I’m becoming aware, now I can choose. Do I go into asymmetry because I’m choosing it or because I was driven to it by the habitual patterns of my ego? So those are the basics. And then if you take those into your work with psychedelics, where we’re going into an amplified energetic experience, that’s how you apply all of this and start to pay attention to what’s really going on within you, to find where is my authentic expression of energy. Those are the basics.

Speaker 2: Fantastic. I think that’s a good note to end on. So I keep talking to you all day, man, i just don’t want to see other things I want to ask you about. But yeah, if people want to learn more about you or the podcast or get in touch with you, where is the best place for them to do that Places?

Speaker 3: Yeah, so my main hub would just be martinballnet And from there it gets links to my books, my art, my music, my podcast, my YouTube page, my integration work, all of that. So the podcast is the Entheogenic Evolution. New episodes come out every week on Amazon, my Amazon author page, martin W Ball. I use the W there for anybody who’s interested in having a conversation, either preparing for a psychedelic event or looking at integrating or also facilitating and serving others. I do offer 30, 60, and 90 minute video calls And for that my webpage is non-dual and theogenicintegrationcom. And yeah, you can find my books wherever you find books online, and you can find my music, which is I don’t use the W with music, so it’s just martinball. You can find that YouTube, Amazon, apple Music, all that crap, spotify, so it’s out there, so I’m easy to find. But, yeah, as I mentioned earlier, i’m not associated with any groups or organizations. I’m very much an independent actor in this field. So, yeah, just come to my webpage and find me there, and always happy to connect and talk with people.

Speaker 2: Fantastic. I will put those links to all of that and anything any of the books that we mentioned. all that will be in the show notes at rageheart.co. Martin, thanks for coming on the show man.

Speaker 3: Thanks for having me, john, i appreciate it.

Speaker 2: I have a question for you Do you feel locked out of life? I remember when I used to feel like this Life itself was fine in a lot of ways, but internally I’m like is this it Like? really, is this? is this? it? Is this as good as life’s getting? Is this as good as I’m going to feel? Even worse was the fact that I’d felt that way for so long that it was well normal, for me at least. I didn’t know anything else. I had no reference point outside my personal experience.

Speaker 2: Looking back, it was like being locked out of life, locked out of all the, the cool shit, the good things that people talk about purpose, joy, meaning, passion, satisfaction and contentment. Just feeling like I’m good, i’m happy, waking up consistently every day with gratitude, peace and genuine excitement for life to be alive on this beautiful planet. Put another way, i’m talking about life lived in full, blazing, ultra high definition color, not the black, white and gray that I spent decades in. To be specific, i would say that means feeling love on a daily basis, whether from your lover, your family, your pets or even from the majestic natural world that’s all around us. Feeling so connected to your purpose that you’re willing to do just about anything to see it through, you’re tapping into a deep sense of purpose. It’s the real secret to success. All these hacks you don’t need that stuff. You just got to figure out and start to feel what you’re here to do.

Speaker 2: I’m talking about feeling so relaxed in your body, actually feeling that you actually feel it right, not just in your mind, in other words, a quiet mind with no thoughts. It’s not enough. That’s just the mental aspect of relaxation. The real test is do you feel it in your body? Because relaxation it’s a feeling right, it’s a bundle of sensations, it’s something that we experience. It’s not something that we think and it’s not simply an absence of thinking. Think about it right. If your mind is quiet but your body is all tense and tight, is it really accurate or true to call that relaxed Hell? no, the same test applies to love and purpose and pretty much everything else.

Speaker 2: It’s one thing to think about your purpose, to journal and theorize and think it through, to read books self-help books about it, get someone else’s ideas on what your purpose should be. It’s quite another thing to feel your gut and your heart, in other words, your body, literally pulling you towards something. It’s not a mental thing. It’s physical, like that song. Let’s get physical. Whatever it goes, baby. Same with love. It’s one thing to say I love you. It’s another thing to feel a love so deep and profound that tears come to your eyes and you are rendered speechless with gratitude.

Speaker 2: Now here’s the crazy thing. I’m not talking about some rare and crazy thing. I’m talking about healthy human functioning, a healthy nervous system. These things do not need to be rare, hard-to-find items in your journey through life. They can be your daily companion.

Speaker 2: The trick is getting to the root problem. If you feel like you’re locked out of life as I’ve described above, with a lack of feeling, love, joy, purpose and real relaxation, it’s likely your nervous system is simply stuck in freeze mode. In other words, due to a build-up of survival stress in your nervous system from the life you’ve lived so far, your nervous system has decided to shut down all feeling because it’s too painful or uncomfortable or impossible to feel. That’s the problem. The solution is to re-establish your ability to feel again. Learning to feel will gradually defrost the freeze mode of the nervous system. This means feeling what’s waiting to be felt, and often that’s a lot of pain and disappointment and fear and frustration and terror and rage, as well as a lot of surprising and strange and even weird physical sensations in your body. But if you’re willing to feel all of that, you’ll discover. Your ability to feel love, joy, purpose, meaning and true relaxation grows simultaneously. That’s really the purpose of Rageheart This podcast, the Daily Growl, the email list I do the Rageheart Academy.

Speaker 2: Everything I’m doing with Rageheart is about this teaching people to feel again, and this is really the same thing as Martin and I talked about today on the podcast. Knowing who you are is not a thinking thing. It’s not about having the correct idea about what or who you are. It’s about feeling it, a connection to the direct experience of what you are. So that’s Rageheart Learning to feel again The good, the bad and the ugly. Over time, the bad and the ugly tends to dissolve and leave as we feel it, while the good grows and grows and grows.

Speaker 2: If you’re interested in that, even if it means feeling some uncomfortable stuff along the way, come join me inside Rageheart, inside the Daily Growl, my free daily email newsletter, where I talk more about this, And that’s really what I’ve just been reading out. Here is an email that I sent out today to the Rageheart, to the Daily Growl list. So if you’d like to get more emails or things like this, sign up for the Daily Growl at RageArtco. That’s like Brave Art but Rage, just like the podcast. Name RageArtco and a little box on the homepage there. Put your email address in, hit the give it to me baby button and confirm your email address and then you’ll be in. One more thing before I go some people usually dudes think feeling is just for weak people. But what’s true? weakness, avoiding feeling because it makes you uncomfortable like a lot of dudes and probably a certain amount of women too.

Speaker 2: Or bravely choosing to feel what’s inside of you, even though it makes you uncomfortable. Then, or woman up, learn to feel again and remember who you are.

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