She Thought She Was Fine – Until Her Face Blew Up (Lisa Loiseau)

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Right. It’s John Wood here, the founder of Rageheart. I’m here with Lisa Loiseau, the bird in French. That’s what I’m told. LSU means the bird, right. So Lisa, the bird? Yes, Lisa Loiseau. I met her through a training with Irene Lyon. She’s like a somatic therapy teacher training type thing. I never know what exactly to call it, but I’ve been wanting to get more wide variety of people, just interesting people on to talk about why they got into this, why they think it’s so great, why they’re studying, why they want to share it. And Lisa’s really cool and it’s been a pleasure getting to know her, and I thought she’d make a good, interesting guest. So Lisa, I wanted to start

Speaker 2 (00:39):
With

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Is what is your favorite thing about the nervous system? Somatic world work?

Speaker 3 (00:48):
My favorite thing. I would say that my favorite thing about it is that it ripples out that as I make changes, I can sense that others in my spaces and community can feel that. And that’s pretty amazing. And I believe that it’s, now that I know, I feel like I have that responsibility to continue to do this work. However, it changes and evolves because I know that impact and I’d like to see my community improve and beyond. I think there’s a lot of room for that growth.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
So it’s like you’re not just, if I was to zoom out and say somatic therapy, it’s a type of therapy. You basically trying to feel better. If I was to simplify it down to the most basic terms, you’re saying it’s not just about you, it’s also affecting the people around you.

Speaker 3 (01:39):
Yes. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
Do you have any examples?

Speaker 3 (01:42):
Yeah, so I have four children. They are all adults now, so only two of them are home and they’re not always down just on vacations and that sort of thing from school. And the communication with them is very different. Not that it was bad before, but I can really pick up on their, well, first of all, I want to say in the very beginning there was, I almost would say attention around it because mom, all this. But I think it’s beginning to shift enough that they can come to me with questions or issues or concerns, and they know that I’m not going to be reactive. It’s more of listening. I could do better, but it’s definitely a space where there’s more listening that happens and I can see the interest in my family on their end too. I think there’s more curiosity. So that’s pretty cool. And in terms of my community, I find my way into spaces where conversations around what I do comes out so naturally and there’s a lot of interest. And I think it’s planting seeds and that’s a beautiful thing. So it’s definitely at seed level and I’m okay with that. I’ll take it whatever level that I’m to be involved with, whether it’s the seed planting, the watering, trying to be the light, whatever it is. I’ll take it. So

Speaker 1 (03:18):
It sounds like you, like before, say all of this, you mentioned being reactive, if you’re with your kids more likely to be triggered or reactive emotionally to what they’re saying or controlling. And now that’s shifted, is that what you’re

Speaker 3 (03:32):
Saying? Definitely shifted. I can stay more present. I may notice something activates me a little bit and I realize, oh, that’s my thing, and I don’t need to be in my thing because they’re talking about their thing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
So what we’re talking about in some ways is how to stay calm under pressure when bad things are happening or someone around us is trigger us or saying something that may make us feel reactive. And I imagine a lot of people might think, well, I can meditate, I can journal, I can do all these other things and something, well, you’ve probably got some familiarity with those things, but one challenge that I’ve had is how do I explain to people that it’s not this somatic therapy, nervous system, regulation, healing, whatever we call it. It’s not meditation, it’s not journaling, it’s not breath work, it’s not these other things that most people are familiar with. It’s something it borrows from them maybe or has similarities, but it’s something else entirely. So how do you explain that? How do you, in your words or how do you sort of think about this and explain this?

Speaker 3 (04:30):
Yeah. So I definitely begin with the fact that there’s an educational component that it’s important for us to first of all know that we have a nervous system. Well, we have more than one, but beyond the central nervous system, we have this peripheral nervous system and all the things that we’ve learned in our program. And when you understand it from that biological standpoint, you can go, oh, that’s where I’m at. So when you start to have that understanding and have that awareness, then you can have choices. To me, without awareness, there’s no choice. So that’s the first thing. And then the work that I teach is the, I call it therapeutic movement. It blends a few different disciplines, which I love all of them. And the nervous system is weaved in throughout all of the aspects of what I teach and share with students who either come to a class of mine or who I work with.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
Okay. So it’s almost like even leaving aside the techniques of somatic work, for example, or the other things you do, even just the theory piece gives you a map for the terrain. So you’re like,

Speaker 2 (05:41):
Even

Speaker 1 (05:41):
If I don’t know exactly what to do with it yet I can at least identify, oh, I’m a little bit say sympathetic right now. I’m feel a little bit flighty. Let me deal with that before maybe going and having this conversation or maybe shelve that or put this over here and then I’ll have this talk to my kids

Speaker 3 (05:58):
Processing

Speaker 1 (05:58):
That and start to understand a bit more about what’s happening rather

Speaker 3 (06:02):
Than being

Speaker 1 (06:02):
Add effects.

Speaker 3 (06:05):
And the way I teach, I started noticing that I was having a pattern, and through that pattern, I ended up creating a model which I use to get the point across. And it’s based on neuroplasticity. Shall I share it with you?

Speaker 1 (06:20):
Go for it. Let’s do

Speaker 3 (06:21):
It. Yes. I call it the pain model, PAIN. And naturally we don’t want to be in pain, but those pain points, whether it’s physical, emotional, or just a frustrating moment, they can be our teachers and can take us into progress. So moving from pain into progress. So I started noticing, I taught with this rhythm and I would use PAIN. Each has its own word. So the P in this model is pause, and in that pause being present. So I’ve had students tell me that that’s all they did for a period of time, and that’s great, and they learn so much just from the pause. But in that pause, if you take it to the next step, what are you a aware of? And then in the work we do, are we aware of our feet? Are we taking notice of our breath? Are we noticing what’s in our space?

Speaker 3 (07:17):
And making those connections and then taking it to the next step. And my eye has developed, and I felt this week already, and I think it’s only Monday that I think I have another eye, but it’s at this point threefold based on your intention following your impulse, what are you going to implement to make a change? So I’m aware of tension in my shoulders using my tools. What change do I need to make? So I’m going to implement it. And then the N is my favorite. That’s neuroplasticity. So you’re going to make, if you repeat the pause, continue to become aware, making those changes, implementing, integrating, using your intentionality, you’re going to create new grooves. And that’s pretty awesome because for better or for worse, we can make those changes. So I think when I teach that way and review that pain model, people start going and it gives them agency and it gives them like, oh, okay, I might need a few more tools in my toolbox or I can continue to use this tool in my toolbox when I’m feeling this awareness. So I think that has really helped shape how I share what I do. And to me, it’s all embedded into the work that we’ve been learning for the last eight months.

Speaker 1 (08:36):
So pause, awareness, intention, impulse, and implement the neuroplasticity. So you’re saying the eyes, it’s sort of three things that

Speaker 3 (08:47):
You pause

Speaker 1 (08:48):
In the moment. Okay. I’m aware of my feet and the wind outside. My intention is to say, soothe my a little bit. Pulse is to look around really slowly. And then my implementation is I guess doing it.

Speaker 3 (09:04):
Exactly, exactly. Yeah. So the example I have given, sometimes we can feel an activation, and at that point you have a choice. So you might have an intention of, okay, I’m in the class with a group, I have a facilitator. Now might be the time to lean into that and manage it, but if I were on my way to a job interview, I may have to make another change because I might have to put that on a shell, set that aside. So I would manage those symptoms, that awareness very differently if I were in one situation. So that’s where the intention comes in. And then so you can choose what tool you’re going to use, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yeah. I mean, from my own practice, it’s almost like there’s moments management or resourcing or trying to get away from the feeling. It’s almost like it’s not bad, it’s just we’re in a certain situation, you do need to shelve it. There’s times when we need to perform. And then there’s other times we might be like, Hey, let, I’ve got some space, I’ve got some time, or I’ve got some good people or no people, let’s go into this. Let’s see what happens. So it sounds like that’s what you’re talking about, right?

Speaker 3 (10:17):
Knowing exactly.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
That’s your intention.

Speaker 3 (10:19):
Exactly.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
Do you find, go ahead and you find that. So giving people a simple model, this helps them to almost rock it. They’re like, oh, now I see what you mean.

Speaker 3 (10:32):
Exactly.

Speaker 3 (10:34):
Give lots of examples. And then in the classroom, if we’re working on a self myofascial release technique, they can be uncomfortable. Well, that’s a perfect place. I’ll give you an example. I take my therapy balls, place one behind my thigh for a hamstring release. I find my sweet spot. It’s not so sweet. It feels a little bitter. And then we can go through that process. Okay, we’re going to take a pause. What are you aware of? Well, maybe I’m noticing my jaw is gripping and my toes are gripping and I really want to be with this, so I’m going to release my toes and focus more on the hamstring. You can kind of play with that. So we’re going through that over and over again in class for students to notice. And they don’t necessarily share with me what they’re noticing. They’re making those internal observations. Sometimes they do or sometimes I may cue them because I can see someone’s shoulders are creeping up and I might say, are you aware of what’s going on at your shoulders? And I’ll see their shoulders relax, and they always have that choice. As soon as you have a awareness, then you have a choice. Without awareness, there’s no choice.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
Without awareness, there’s no choice. But sometimes, I mean, this is one of the weird, strange things about this work that I’ve seen where sometimes a lot of the time not about trying to force a change, it’s just if I can become aware of what I’m actually doing,

Speaker 2 (11:59):
More

Speaker 1 (11:59):
Granular, maybe I’m aware of a pattern, but I’m not really aware of what’s happening. I’m aware that I’m addicted to something, for example. But in the moment that it happens, I’m not really aware of what I’m feeling. So by putting more awareness into that, sometimes maybe it can take a while, but sometimes it’s like just the awareness itself is enough when I can finally see what’s happening or what I’m actually doing or what the sensation is, it’ll often just, it sorts itself out. It doesn’t require a conscious trying, it’s more just increase the awareness in that area and then the body, I guess that’s learning. It’s probably the definition of learning the system. It doesn’t want to do it the wrong way. So it just automatically starts doing the right way when it actually becomes aware of what that is.

Speaker 3 (12:40):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
Yeah,

Speaker 3 (12:42):
That’s a beautiful thing. Again, it happens for better or for worse. And we’re in the game for better.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
What’s a worse example?

Speaker 3 (12:51):
Well, I was thinking about neuroplasticity happens for better or for worse. So yes, I guess a for worse situation could be, well, you’re not really noticing those patterns and you’re just by default binge watching Netflix on a regular basis, and then you can go into any other thing that may be an addictive nature. And that’s how addictive addictions form

Speaker 1 (13:18):
And unwind as well. I’ve noticed that the more I’ve brought this awareness to things, whether it’s simple things like scrolling on social media or something, if I’m just in a sort of mindless state, I’m not feeling anything, I’m just caught up in whatever I’m watching. Or if

Speaker 1 (13:33):
It could be Netflix, if I start going, okay, can I still feel the ground? What’s my pelvic, lately it’s been like the pelvic floor is that tense. What about my shoulders? What at the muscles around my eyes? And don’t try and I won’t try and stop doing the thing. I’ll keep playing on whatever it is Instagram, for example, but try and do it with that embodied awareness. And then I’ll get bored so much quicker. I’m just like, oh, okay, I got what I needed or something. They’re just like, all right, yeah, cool. Just floats away. It’s really strange.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
I love that. That’s great. Boy, if we can continue to teach that and share that, John, and I think it really is a testament to as soon as you allow yourself to get into your body, how that shifted for you. The very place that most people want to run from our body being in our physical feelings.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
And yet it’s that the paradox of like, yeah, we want to run away from it, but it’s also where we come home.

Speaker 3 (14:25):
Yeah, where we come home. I love that.

Speaker 1 (14:28):
So what about you? You said you, it’s not just somatic, say therapy that you do or you have that, but you called it something, you had a name.

Speaker 3 (14:36):
Yes. I called it therapeutic movement. The name has stuck. I don’t know if I’ll always land there, but that’s where I’m at right now. And the movement coaching that I offer is a blend of physical therapy. As I went to school for therapy, I took some coursework in myofascia release. So I’m a myofascia release practitioner. I also studied a few levels of yoga, so I’m a yoga instructor. And then most recently, educational nervous system health. So that’s a blend, and I like to think of it almost like a mosaic, or recently I thought about the word kaleidoscope. I have all those elements in there and twist it just a little bit here, a little bit there. Get a different perspective on what somebody may need, helping them to see it. It’s not me see what to do next in terms of what exercise, what to implement, what to change, all the things that we’re learning.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
So it was integrated movement,

Speaker 3 (15:36):
Therapeutic movement,

Speaker 1 (15:37):
Therapeutic movement, therapeutic

Speaker 3 (15:39):
Movement, therapeutic. It’s a newer idea. I created it. So I’m not sure if that’s the best description. And I do call myself a coach because even though I see people in my hometown, I can see them as a physical therapist and work with them because I’m licensed in the state that I live in, but I can’t see anybody outside of that. But if I move into a coaching model that can shift.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
And so do you find that it seems like different people, some people might’ve heard of say, somatic experiencing or somatics or feeling feelings. And I mean there’s a wide variety in what that can mean for someone. For some it might mean just tracking sensations, but we’ve both learned from Irene and Ilia now as well where that’s part of it, but there’s also a lot of movement involved.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
So

Speaker 1 (16:28):
It sounds like that’s what you’re bringing. It’s like, yeah, you want to be in your body, but you can’t really do that properly without adding in the movement piece.

Speaker 3 (16:35):
Adding in the, exactly. And some people, I like to think of it as a movement diet, just like your nutritional diet, what are you doing? And sometimes we need just a little appetizer to get things flowing. So giving people little nuggets of ways they can move. I like to think about it, not like a workout. I do my own workout, my physical exercises in the gym, but my classes are not really a workout. They’re more of a work in, but there’s still movement required to get into the body. And then once you’re there, okay, what’s coming up? What needs to happen next? So they all look different. And my classes, I can only fit six people. So that’s some small class, which is really helpful with this type of work because beyond six people, it’s difficult to, I mean, I’ve done bigger classes, but it’s difficult to get into it at a personal level because that’s important to me that they can do this work and know that it’s for them. Not that they’re trying to follow me, they need to follow them. No following the leader.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
So how does that work then? If I was to come to a therapeutic movement class with Lisa, what would that be like?

Speaker 3 (17:49):
Yeah, so I have a theme each week. And it could be a theme. We could be focusing on the hamstrings or it could be a theme of posture. It really depends. And then I use that as a teaching point to step on that board of here’s a little bit of theory, and then we weave the theory in through a warmup. There’s always an opportunity for orienting. That’s always a piece of it. And then we get into exercises and they could look like balance or they always look like some form of self myofascial release. And then the pain model is put in there. I could teach on the pain model. There’s a time where my lesson is all about the pain model. And then there’s always relaxation at the end. And since I do carry a license to touch as a physical therapist, I always offer a little touch point, which is really nice for people to get a shoulder release or a leg pull, something that feels very supportive.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
And physical therapy is if I say get injured working out or on the job or something like that, I might see a physical therapist to help me fix the injury. Is that generally what it’s for? Yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:02):
Yep, yep. Fix the injury. And basic physical therapy problems would be issues with range of motion or pain or limited mobility. And yes, we work on all of those things in my class.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
And so you’re doing the Feldenkrais stuff we’ve both done is very slow, often almost like micro movements. I mean you can see it, but there can be a lot of, you can almost barely see that someone’s even moving. So are you playing just at that level or doing a whole range of things?

Speaker 3 (19:30):
A whole range of things. It could be a very slow moving where we could be on our back with our knees bent feet on the floor. And what’s it like to just pick up your foot a little bit or slide your leg a little bit? But sometimes the movements are a little bit bigger. And I do notice when I encourage them to do less, that there is often more conversation at the end like, oh, I felt this. When you really allow people to slow things down, it gives them that opportunity to really feel, because if you just get on one of the therapy balls and you’re rolling, rolling, rolling, that’s great. To a point, you might be bringing some blood flow to the area that’s good, but you almost get momentum involved and then they lose it. They just aren’t really feeling it. They’re just going with the flow, but not necessarily in the best way. So yeah, I do get people to move through things slowly.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
I mean, it’s another tricky thing with this work is it’s like someone, I think it was Sophie said, Sophie Fletcher I think said it was sneaky powerful,

Speaker 3 (20:32):
Right? Sneaky, powerful.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
So I live down in South America in Peru and plant medicine, psychedelic land. So there’s a lot of people who come down here to do this type of, not so much thematic work necessarily, but they’re here to work on themselves. That’s often what people use Ayahuasca or San Pedro or whatever it is for, they’ve got a trauma, they’ve got something they’re trying to resolve. And I’ve tried to explain the sematic specifically this slowing the movement down

Speaker 1 (21:01):
To people. And it’s one of those things like this thematic thing as a whole, I think there’s whole way of working nervous system health where it’s got that sneaky powerful thing where I think people are like, yeah, whatever. I was chatting to my sister about it when I told her about it. She’s like, sounds pretty basic, man. I don’t think it’s really going to do that much. And then every now and then, I had a friend who I’d been talking about this somatic stuff for age isn’t going really slow with the move, turning your head really slowly,

Speaker 1 (21:27):
Just what that does to the effect. And she heard about it ages ago and then one day she messaged me, she’s like, oh my God, I’ve been trying that thing. And I really slowed the movement down and I see what you mean now. I can’t really explain it, but there’s something that happens, a shift in our sense of ourselves or something that happens for me at least it sounds like for you two and some other people, it’s a bit easier to perceive when we get really slow. And the stopping and starting for me is often pretty crucial. Seeing it’s pausing, going, pausing. It’s like I miss all of that. If I just rush through it, there’s something

Speaker 3 (22:04):
So magical. Exactly. You miss it. Yes. It’s the kind of go with the flow that you like. It flows right by you and you do miss it. For sure. I have a similar saying, a sneaky powerful, I say subtly potent. So I thought that was funny when she said sneaky powerful. I was like, oh, it’s the same letters. Sneaky, powerful, and subtly potent. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (22:26):
Same meaning.

Speaker 3 (22:27):
Exactly.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
Same thing. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:29):
I like sneaky powerful is more fun to say. So I might adopt that one

Speaker 1 (22:34):
Bit more colloquial. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (22:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:37):
But it is, I mean that’s one of the challenges with this work to me tell someone, Oriental, look around the room and feel the ground and it’s like, really? That’s what I need to do with my life? And I’m like, yeah, probably for

Speaker 3 (22:47):
The next

Speaker 1 (22:47):
Few years do that. And you’ll be amazed at what happens. But I think people are like, well, no, I already know that I’ve meditated. That’s just mindfulness meditation.

Speaker 3 (22:57):
And then ask someone to try it. And then we have to remember if there’s resistance, that’s a good teacher too.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
Yeah. I wonder, this is almost more like a philosophical thing. I wonder how often if you start talking about the nervous system, even just hearing a little bit about it, can I wonder if that can start to activate things? And if people are on some level, they’re like, I’m not ready for this, their soul, or they’re on a very deep gut level, they’re like, no, they don’t consciously know what’s really all they feel. It is like, yeah, I don’t want to do that. But on a deeper level is there’s something going on that’s like, yeah, this is not for me right now for some reason there’s a six spidey sense to it

Speaker 3 (23:38):
Maybe. Sure, sure. Even Irene will talk about this is not for everyone. If there’s someone who may not be well supported in their family system, they’re still in the toxic environment, it’s probably not the time to do it.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
Tell me more about that.

Speaker 3 (23:55):
Yeah, so I mean I haven’t come across anybody like that per se, but I have heard her say that it is possible that there are people out there who doing this nervous system work is too much. Because if they have so much going on or they had so much going on in their lifetime, lots of early trauma shock traumas, they’re still in the abusive situation for them to try to do this. They don’t have the resources needed, they don’t have the support that’s required. I can see that. I can see how it’d be very difficult. I appreciate the fellow peers that we have that we’re really just a text away. If we have something coming up, one of the 32 of us, if that’s how many there are, would most likely be available if needed. And that’s comforting. It’s not to say I utilize that all the time, but I know it’s there.

Speaker 3 (24:52):
It would be hard if you didn’t have a practitioner to go through this with or group. And that’s interesting. That’s how I came in. The reason why I got into this is so interesting to me. My son got into some trouble. He was in junior high school, nothing that most of us hadn’t done. It was giving alcohol to a young girl. She ratted on him, he was honest about it and he got expelled. And through that process we had to find a new school for him. And we were honest with that school and they said, sure, we’ll take you into our private school, but you have to go through therapy. They needed to make sure there wasn’t a drug and alcohol issue. And through that therapeutic experience, the counselor asked me a few questions and he was prying on my childhood. And he’s like, has this happened to you?

Speaker 3 (25:45):
I won’t get into the details of that. And I was like, oh yeah, that happened to me. He’s like, oh, you must have been through your therapy. I said, no, I’m fine. Look at me, I’m fine. I have four kids. I’m a physical therapist. I’m working on my own business. He’s like, that sounds like some denial. I never really heard of denial before that. And he said, maybe this is something you would want to talk to a therapist about. Well, I’m a recovering people pleaser. So I did jump into therapy and I thought, okay, I’m a rule follower. I’ll do this. And I hit therapy really hard. I went twice a week. I went above and beyond with homework. I did everything but my body revolted. I wasn’t ready, I didn’t have the capacity and my skin, my face blew up. I was not recognizable.

Speaker 3 (26:33):
I had to go to the emergency room. It blew up over time, but when it really hit the peak and I knew that I was going too fast too quickly. So I went back to my therapist and I said, I don’t think I can do this. I think I need a different setting. I need to hear other people’s story. It can’t just be about me. So I knew intuitively I had to find a support group. And in that support group, the facilitator said things like survival mode and nervous system. And I’m like, what is this? So I dug into that and I had a lot of shame around that because I thought I should know better. I should have known this. I went to physical therapy school, I should know what survival mode is. I don’t have shame around it anymore, but I did then. And that’s how I found Irene’s work because I knew I needed to find something about nervous system and survival. And I did the three part healing series. That was my jump in.

Speaker 1 (27:31):
How long ago was this?

Speaker 3 (27:32):
When my face blew up? It was 2018 and then it took me about a year until I found, so 2019 is when I started with the 21 day tuneup,

Speaker 1 (27:43):

2019. And then it’s BSM at some point. These are Irene’s courses for

Speaker 3 (27:48):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (27:49):
Wow. How long, I mean when you started going through it and learning more about it, how long was it before it was like this was,

Speaker 3 (27:56):
Oh, the first, it was the healing trauma. I knew I was onto something when I watched that three part healing. I felt it in my being like this is the missing piece. And I knew I needed more. And it wasn’t long after that that I signed up for the 21 day. And again, I just think instinctively I knew to go slow. It took me a year to do the 21 days and some of them I repeated, I made pretty significant changes right away. I started noticing I had to change things about my diet, about my boundaries right away. And I’m not even sure why I waited until a year to do smart body smart Mind. I think I’m not even sure why that was. Now I think about it, maybe it was the financial piece, but I didn’t really hesitate. I have before, usually it takes me a long time to make a decision For me, this decision came pretty quickly. I was like, this is it.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
And when you talk about it was too much for you with the therapy, your skin broke out and then also going slow with the 21 day. I just think back to what I was like before I got into this and I imagine I could, I’d be like, what do you mean feeling feelings? It’s not that hard. So can you tell me more about that? How would you explain that whole idea? Why do you need to go slow? What’s the point of that?

Speaker 3 (29:22):
Yeah, so the way I look at it and the way I understand it is my nervous system was living in survival mood, completely dysregulated. So when I was trying to work on some deep difficult things too much too quickly that shut my system down, it was just I wasn’t able to go at that pace. It was too much too fast. And I just, before I even knew, I knew that I needed to go slowly. And the fancy word that we use is titrate just one little drop at a time. A dysregulated system just needs to go through a nice slow pace, introducing concepts slowly, testing the waters and just adding a little bit at a time until you build that capacity. And now I’m literally 32 pounds bigger as a result of it. So I take up more space, I have more confidence. It doesn’t mean I don’t crush sometimes under pressure, but at least I know what’s happening and I don’t think I’ll ever have an experience of my face blowing up again. Recently I had a little skin flare and I was like, okay, no, that’s my teacher. So now it can be my teacher much earlier on and I can witness my system before it gets to the point of a complete breakdown. And in my case, it was like the skin barrier just broke down

Speaker 3 (30:48):
And I knew that was a result of stuff going on. The inside your skin is a reflection of what’s going on internally.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
I mean this is one thing that I’m still blown away by, but just the stuff we can hold. The intensity, the volume of stuff. By stuff I mean like the energy, you mentioned survival mode. So

Speaker 1 (31:08):
The survival energy that drives us to run away to attack. And if too much of that comes up at once, it’s flooding. How I think about it, it’s like flooding the body, the whole system with electricity and it kind of blows a fuse and the whole thing. And then you end up with symptoms. Some people, it seems to be they for you might be the skin. For me, it’s often my mind and OCD that’s go-to one of my primary ones of management strategies, mitigation attempts by the body to be like, look so that I don’t die. We need to find an outlet for this thing. And that’s one thing I think maybe people don’t fully understand. Before you can’t really, until you really get into it and you feel it. But there’s a lot of crazy stuff that can come up that can be surprisingly intense.

Speaker 3 (31:56):
The beautiful thing about all of that intensity as is when you gain more regulation as some of the freeze lists, we didn’t really talk about freeze, but when things get too much and the freeze comes to kind of shut things down, when that starts to lift and you feel that energy, it can really propel you forward and get you motivated and help you get things done. It’s our life force and that’s a beautiful thing. And then what I love about that, it’s like I’m so excited because I can take charges to what I’m going to do with that energy I can choose. So yeah, I love that piece. It’s vital vitality,

Speaker 1 (32:37):
Right? It’s not like we’re just trying to release something or purge something or get rid of something where it’s a reclamation of our life force of

Speaker 3 (32:46):
Yes, I love

Speaker 1 (32:48):
That

Speaker 3 (32:48):
Reclamation.

Speaker 1 (32:50):
Yeah, I don’t think I’ve ever used that word before, but I

Speaker 3 (32:52):
Love it. That’s perfect.

Speaker 1 (32:54):
Reclamation set in something like that to reclaim it, you might a reclamation, but that idea,

Speaker 3 (32:59):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
It’s not just about releasing it, we’re reclaiming.

Speaker 3 (33:04):
Yes. That’s a perfect description,

Speaker 1 (33:05):
Right?

Speaker 3 (33:06):
Yeah. Because there all along and if it’s not tapped into it unfortunately is destroying some system somewhere and it impacts us and it can happen for some people, multiple systems. I mean you think about people with autoimmune conditions where, okay, here’s a new symptom, here’s another new symptom. This is popping up because the body will break down if it keeps up at that level. I felt that happening for me, not anymore.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
Yeah, amazing. I get dried crack skin. I think that can sometimes be on my hands for some reason. I get a lot of stuff happening in my hands and my hands are often places where things crack

Speaker 3 (33:47):
Things

Speaker 1 (33:47):
Dry the first places in my body to crack. But I don’t get major skin reactions around my sister. She does. She just had one recently. And just an interesting thing that different bodies, different people have different strategies for managing the charge that gets stuck at

Speaker 3 (34:05):
The system. The system is always trying to find some homeostasis, some management. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (34:10):
It’s cool too because it reframes this work like trauma work or I still struggle with what do we call what we do? I don’t know, but I think it can feel like it’s alright. It is work at times. It takes a certain level of courage or gumption or something, but it’s not all pain and tears and heartache and it’s struggle. There’s a bit of that, but the reward is that energy that you get back to do whatever you want with whatever you want to do in your life. It’s going to make you everyone better at being whoever they are, which is really cool. It’s not like it’s just potential and then you get to do whatever the hell you want with it.

Speaker 3 (34:52):
Very exciting. And also in addition to that, the benefits of this, aside from feeling better, all those things, I’m having some memories, like good memories because a big chunk of my childhood I didn’t remember. And it’s nice to have little nuggets like, oh, I remember that time this happened and that, and that’s sweet too. It’s like that’s kind of coming up as this energy and things start to shift. Yeah, so that’s pretty cool too.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
I know what you mean. I don’t know if I’ve had chunks that I just can’t remember. There’s blank spots where I can’t really just remember it being really stressful and painful and it’s really glad I’m not there right now. But then yeah, there is an element of doing this where you’re like, oh yeah, there was that time, there was that good time too.

Speaker 3 (35:42):
It’s a

Speaker 1 (35:42):
Good time. So let’s balance it out a little bit. The bad times are still there, but it’s not all bad. And then maybe on that note, that makes me want to circle back to what you mentioned in the beginning. Beginning how everything’s connected. Where for me, I’m curious what you think about this, but for me, having done this work now and seeing you start to understand these dynamics, how everything’s so interrelated. And then I see my parents where obviously a lot of our stuff comes from who we were raised by and I think for a long time I wonder for me, and I’m pretty sure a lot of people, it’s easy to blame the parents or blame the ancestors. And these days it’s become more like, oh, they were doing the best they could with what they had. If they could have done better, they probably would’ve done it.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
It’s not very enjoyable to be the way I look at some of the people in my family. I’m like, that does not look like a nice way to be. I can’t fix it for you. You are the one who has to learn but can’t also can’t in some ways blame you for behaving like that. You were just repeating the generation before that and the generation before that and the generation before that. And as much as I hate, I have bad days, I’m like, why am I doing this? This is horrible. But it’s also, there’s an element of how cool that we get to be doing this work, going through this process of feeling all these things that have been there for hundreds, thousands of years. It’s crazy to think about.

Speaker 3 (37:04):
It is crazy.

Speaker 1 (37:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:06):
Do you ever have resentment around that at all? Is that ever or any resentment

Speaker 1 (37:11):
Around in what sense?

Speaker 3 (37:11):
Just the fact here we are, we have to do the work now. Sometimes I have resentments. If I had to be honest, like, oh, why do I have to clean up this mess that I didn’t create to begin with? Things were done to me. I just was curious. I don’t necessarily feel that way anymore, but was wondering if you ever feel that or is it just now more of a sense of responsibility now that you’re going to continue to be on this path to do the work because all those behind you didn’t know how to do it.

Speaker 1 (37:42):
I think maybe in the past of this being maybe resentment or why do I have to do this? But now I think it’s more like, man, what’s the choice? I could have been one of them in some world war or in poverty or all kinds of things that have happened wherever. It’s almost, I’ve been reading this book based on, well, the TB series is based on a book called The Last Kingdom about the formation of England. England and Vikings. Really, really cool. It’s like a historical fiction. What’s interesting though, from this drama perspective, I think about, oh, they’re going through wars and they’re seeing torture and people dying and disease

Speaker 1 (38:18):
And with our understanding of this nervous system, I’m like, they’re not processing any of it. There’s no room to, they’re in a fight for their survival. They don’t have time to sit around and cry or process or feel the ground. There’s no education, there’s no understanding, there’s no techniques, there’s no space. So then I’m like, okay, well what if I could switch to be with one of them? Well, I’d probably rather be where I am right now. As much as it’s frustrating and difficult. I think I’d rather be here in Peru where there’s no gang of Vikings that’s going to run down the hill. And

Speaker 3 (38:49):
That’s a great point. Yes.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
I think about it like that. And then now I think the reason it’s coming up is because it’s like humanity’s reached a point where we’ve met not for everyone, but probably for more people than ever before, that basic material needs at least. So then it’s on a micro level. I can see it in myself where it’s like things are pretty good in materially to all this deep, dark shit is coming up. It can be like, why is this coming up? I’m like, well, probably because I’ll feel like life is so good. Why am I feeling this? I’m like, well, probably because life is so good. Something in you is like, you’ve got space to feel this now. So I think about that on a macro level where maybe society is like, oh, we’re getting into this now. Because on some level there’s a readiness at least in some number of people where it’s like it’s time for this to come up. I think about it as almost like a privilege or a blessing. The fact that I get to feel certain things now and the gifts that come from resolving this stuff too.

Speaker 3 (39:48):
And if we continue on this path, we will continue to create that space and open that space, which is beautiful.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (39:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
I think about my mom or my dad and it doesn’t even feel like I’m doing it. It’s less personal. Even my will, I just think about my willingness to do this. I can’t draw a line. Well how much of that comes from mom or dad, from so on and so forth. So it becomes like it’s a group community effort is how I think about it these days. Do you think you’ll ever stop doing this stuff or will you do it forever until the day you die?

Speaker 3 (40:23):
That is a really good question. I think there will be some level of this work that I’ll always do because it has become a lifestyle for me. It doesn’t take any effort. So my morning routine incorporates it and I’m a habit stacker. Do you know that term? Is that familiar? Yeah,

Speaker 1 (40:41):
From stain Clear

Speaker 3 (40:43):
Is

Speaker 1 (40:43):
Another habit.

Speaker 3 (40:44):
Yeah. So if you’re doing something, we may as well do that. Something around then. So every morning I start my day trying to get the sunrise. So I’m getting sunrise, I’m getting my feet on the ground and I do lymphatic work, but then I make it my own and I do lots of orienting and all the things following my pain model. So I do that every morning and I can’t imagine that stopping. It’s so enjoyable that why would I? And there’s always going to be something new to see. Probably always a new awareness. I don’t anticipate that going anywhere anytime soon. I’d say the biggest place that I do my own therapeutic movement beyond the morning routine is at the gym, which I need to get to more often.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
That’s where to go in two minutes,

Speaker 3 (41:33):
Minutes. Oh good.

Speaker 1 (41:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (41:35):
I think I might do that tonight too, John. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (41:38):
Well, on that note, if

Speaker 3 (41:39):
People

Speaker 1 (41:40):
Want to learn more about you, they want to reach out to you, work with you, do you do one-on-one stuff online or is it just endorse?

Speaker 3 (41:46):
I am going to be doing online, so yes, if there is an interest, I would love to hear from people and you could reach me on my website, which is Move well with lisa.com.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
Well with lisa.com. Okay.

Speaker 3 (42:00):
Yeah,

Speaker 1 (42:00):
I’ll have a link to that in the show notes at rageheart.co. If you want to learn more about me, that’s the same place, rageheart.co, like Braveheart. Alright. Thank you so much for coming on the show, Lisa.

Speaker 3 (42:14):
Thank you, John. I appreciate your time and let’s.